Army 83rd Birthday

An Astros II MLRS launcher vehicle of the Rejimen 51 of the Kor Artileri Di Raja at the 2013 Merdeka Day parade.

SHAH ALAM: The Army celebrated its 83rd birthday yesterday (March 1) and its obvious its feeling the pain of the current economic downturn though so far the plans announced earlier remained intact. However, the delivery of new assets will be “slowed” down to reflect the challenging fiscal environment.

Speaking at the anniversary celebration in Port Dickson, Army chief Jen Raja Mohamed Affandi Raja Mohamed Noor said due to the current economic conditions, the delivery times of the assets would need to be adjusted.

“For example, if the asset is supposed to be supplied within two years, now we will make it three years,” he added. One of the assets likely affected by the adjustment is the Gempita 8X8. Last year only 27 Gempitas were handed over to the Army though the original plan was for 40 units.

Raja Mohamed Affandi
Raja Mohamed Affandi

Nonetheless, despite the difficulties, Raja Affandi announced the Army was standing up two new brigades – a Rocket Artillery Brigade and 31st Infantry Brigade – and the second Army Air Wing squadron, Rejimen 882.

51 Rejimen KAD pictured at its anniversary in 2012. Note the Arthur WLR on the BV206 vehicles on both sides at the back.
51 Rejimen KAD pictured at its anniversary in 2012. Note the Arthur WLR on the BV206 vehicles on both sides at the back. 51 KAD picture.

The setting up of the 31st Brigade is covered here while the Rocket Artillery Brigade which controls the two Astros II regiments – Rejimen 51 and 52 and the Rejimen 62 – equipped with the Arthur weapon locating radars – is the culmination of the plan announced around six years ago. It is likely that the brigade finally got its official funding from the Public Services Department this year. It is also likely all this while the positions in the brigade were “borrowed” from other units in the Army.

An Astros II MLRS launcher vehicle of the Rejimen 51 of the Kor Artileri Di Raja at the 2013 Merdeka Day parade.
An Astros II MLRS launcher vehicle of the Rejimen 51 of the Kor Artileri Di Raja at the 2013 Merdeka Day parade.

The second PUTD squadron stood up – Rejimen 882 – is for the new, medium helicopter squadron, the Nuri helicopters handed over by the RMAF. According to the email Q&A for 83rd anniversary, the squadron has received three Nuri while the fourth one is undergoing flight test prior to the handing over. Two of the Nuri was received at Lima 2015.

One of the digital camoed Nuri handed over to the Army at LIMA 15.
One of the digital camoed Nuri handed over to the Army at LIMA 15.

Rejimen 882 will eventually operate up to 12 Nuri helicopters for troop transport and utility roles. Meanwhile, the Blackhawk helicopters to be handed over Brunei this year will be operated with the AW109 light helicopters already based in Semporna, Sabah as part of the combined arms ESSCOM Brigade which is still being formed up.

The Little Bird that could
The Little Bird that could

Apart from the Blackhawks and AW109, six MD Helicopters MD530G light scout attack helicopters are expected to join the unit in 2017.

A digital camoed AW109 M81-08 served as the background for a photo shoot for a photography course. BTDM picture.
A digital camoed AW109 M81-08 served as the background for a photo shoot for a photography course. BTDM picture.

Raja Affandi said funding for the setting up of the headquarters and other facilities of the ESSCOM brigade has been approved under RMK11. The brigade is under the operational control of the Task Force 450, which is the fore-runner of the new Fifth Division.

The 25mm Bushmaster turret on the Gempita
The 25mm Bushmaster turret on the Gempita

According to Raja Affandi, the Army will be receiving 56 Gempita in various variants in 2016. Most of the IFV variant will be sent to units in Sabah which is already operating the 27 vehicles delivered so far. Other Gempita variants to be handed over to the Army are the Armoured Fighting Vehicle with 30mm turret and AFV with the 30mm turret and ATGM. These variants will be operated by mechanised and armour units.

The digital camoed AV4.
The digital camoed AV4.

On the AV4, Raja Affandi said the 20 vehicles expected to be delivered this year will be operated by the Armour Squadron of the ESSCOM brigade.

On the offer of M109 A5/A6 SPH by the United States under the Excess Defence Articles (EDA) programme, Raja Affandi said the Army had accepted the offer and was in the process of finalising the procurement. “If the procurement is completed, it will boost the firepower capability of the Army especially for units operating in Sabah”.

A file picture of the M109A5
A file picture of the M109A5

Malaysian Defence had reported on the SPH offer from the US recently. The Army is expected to field 24 M109 SPH upgraded to the latest A6 standard with another six vehicles used for spares and training.

Meanwhile, the Army is to take delivery of a squad level simulator system this year. The Small Arms and Leadership Immersive Virtual Training Simulator (VIRTSIM) is expected to be fully operational later this year at the Kem Sirajuddin in Gemas.

The tender for the simulator was published in mid-2015 and the selection of the multi-modal transport operator (MTO) was decided late last year. The simulator is used by the US Army (known as the Dismounted Soldier Training System) and also the FBI.

US Army cadets train with the DSTS system during Cadet Summer Training 2015 at Fort Knox, Ky.
US Army cadets train with the DSTS system during Cadet Summer Training 2015 at Fort Knox, Ky.

According to its manufacturer, Motion Reality of the US, “The VIRTSIM system allows training in a range of re-configurable environments. User-customisable scenarios can be configured within these environments to train individuals in direct action, counter-terrorism, react to contact, or other Tactics, Techniques and Procedures (TTPs) based on the Current Operating Environment (COE).

PAC soldiers at the recent Cobra Gold Exercise in Thailand, recently. Markas Angkatan Bersama picture.
PAC soldiers at the recent Cobra Gold Exercise in Thailand, recently. Markas Angkatan Bersama picture.

Meanwhile, Raja Affandi confirmed that the 18th Battalion of the RMR has been transferred to the 10th PAC Brigade effective on Sep 10, last year. With the addition of the 18th RMR, the PAC Brigade now has four infantry battalions which is peculiar to the Army.

An PAC personnel taking part in the North Thunder exercise in Saudi Arabia.. Diraalwatan
An PAC personnel taking part in the North Thunder exercise in Saudi Arabia.. Diraalwatan

As the PAC units are heavily tasked for various operational and training missions, its likely the addition of the 18th RMR will bring some relief to the soldiers of the brigade.

–Malaysian Defence

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38 Comments

  1. Are we going to see any marines or air assault bns?

    Reply
    No, its likely that the PAC will also be helo borne troops. And no marines too.

  2. Great to note that we arw finally getting SPH’s, notwithstanding its second hand n its range is shorter than the longer barrel version of the howitzer.
    But if we can afford more than 24 it would be even better. Not just for Sabah but also for the peninsular too

  3. Yup, the PAC is heavily tasked lately, from foreign training deployments to patrolling bukit bintang shopping areas with the police!

  4. Btw, happy birthday tentera darat!

    It is great to hear that the army would obtain a new capability, tracked self propelled howitzers to go along with the armoured formations. There is no issue with the army buying used, as this procurement proves. Would this new sph be a part of the proposed armoured brigade? Any news on that?

    On the rocket artillery brigade. Is the 3rd regiment still on?

    On the PUTD helicopter squadrons. Is it each one going to be called a REGIMENT? it seems odd, as 2-3 squadrons would form a regiment/battalion. UK AAC still call them a helicopter squadron (following armor traditions), while us army calls them a helicopter company (following infantry traditions). I would prefer the putd to be renamed kutd (kor udara tentera darat), similar to the UK AAC (army air corps)

    Reply
    As mentioned in the story, it is likely that the SPH – if finally paid for – will be sent for ESSCOM (at least a battery worth). It must be noted that the procurement of the Mark V SOC boats was approved but in the end they decided to ditch it. So lets wait until they signed the contract first before we go into other things.
    As for third MLRS regiment, all seemed quiet at the moment. As for the PUTD, I have no idea why they did not follow the British Army AAC norms. As for name change to KUTD, I believed they will revert to that once it got the Royal colours.

  5. Regarding the 10 para brigade, aka the PAC.

    There is no issue of a parachute qualified formation that is also marine qualified.

    Look at the french 11th parachute brigade. All of the battalions in the brigade are parachute qualified, with 2 battalions both parachute and marine qualified. The 10para could also be something like that. The French 11th parachute brigade is currently one of the forefront units in using parachute in current operations, as in operation serval in Mali.

    Reply
    Of course the PAC could be marine qualified. However the marine battalion idea was something that never got off the ground AFAIK, after what was said back in 2013.

  6. Is it possible that US will offer the 2nd hand hornet under EDA program?

    Reply
    Unlikely as the programme on record – MRCA – calls for brand new aircraft. However if we were to ask for 2nd hand Hornets that will be a different issue though it’s not 100 % per cent that the US will offer them.

  7. Lee,

    Range is less of an issue. More important is how we go about requesting fire missions, acquiring the target and hitting what we aim at : range is secondary, especially given that the bulk of fire missions – for a variety of reasons – will not be performed at the gun’s maximum range.

    ……. – ”The French 11th parachute brigade is currently one of the forefront units in using parachute in current operations, as in operation serval in Mali.”

    Indeed, the French have a long tradition of operational jumps; from Indochina to Kolwezi to Mali. Given the resources involved, including the costs, I’m surprised how we can maintain 4 jump qualified units.

    Like the MBT requirement and other stuff; there there has been a requirement for a 3rd MLRS regiment for years; it never went away. The army is on record as saying the 3rd regiment doesn’t have to be an ASTROS one. Way back in the early 2000’s – before ASTROS was ordered – there was interest in SMERCH but if we don’t have the capability to acquire targets at long ranges; pointless to get SMERCH : that was the debate. If indeed the army has a requirement to replace the Model 56s; I’d rather any future cash allocated for a 3ed MLRS regiment be used instead for new 105 howitzers. My take on the matter however is that only 10 Para should retain a 105mm capability, with the rest binning the 105mm and sticking purely to 155mms.

  8. @ azlan

    Im in favour of the 120mm mortars (like the us marines m327) being used as the replacement for the 105mm oto melaras, along with the mechanized 2r2m 120mm mortars (on acv300 and av8) passed over to the artillery regiment.

    I believe some operations, like the kg tanduo siege, would be an overkill to use something like 155mm howitzers there. 120mm mortars should give similar firepower to a 105mm pack howitzers, although with a totally different way of putting the shells at the target.

  9. They could partly replace the pack howitzers with 120mm mortars.

    Right now our 120mm mortars are limited to vehicle-mounted ones

  10. Marhalim..do we hv another weapon locating regiment the 61st regt is the first did msia stood up another regt the 62nd for the rocket bde? As far as i hv known we do hv sound ranging system for detection of incoming projectiles or have bought extra bv206 mounted with arthur radar.

    Reply
    AFAIK no more Arthur radars.

  11. I would also be happy if the cash for a 3rd regiment was instead used for guided rounds for our existing units.

    Guided rockets or rounds will sometimes be unnecessary and sometimes useful. The sort of guidance -laser or GPS- will be something for us to work out. As mentioned above, we have to work out how to get the rounds on target in good time.

    Unfortunately the amount of money that went into the XK98 Taming Sari that we will probably never see, is something we will probably never know.

  12. For my understanding, SMERCH only can have 1 type of rocket and maximum range is 90km, while ASTROS have multiple type of rocket and the maximum GPS rocket can up to 150km and it also can fire guide missile as well. I believe ATM look for battle proven system. ASTROS and G5 155mm towed howitzer had done a great job during Gulf War.

    Taming Sari is a sad R&D case if there is no further development or production.

    It will be a good start for ATM to get 2nd hand M109 A5/A6 SP howitzer although it was not the ideal candidate and it require more ATM personal to operate it.

  13. “although it was not the ideal candidate and it require more ATM personal to operate it.”

    The number of crewmen is not a concern if we are only getting a handful of guns. Other factors should be much more important to us.

    I do hope we upgrade the guns otherwise some national interest will find an excuse to replace them with brand new expensive stuff. Although upgrading did not save the Skyhawks.

  14. AM – ” Although upgrading did not save the Skyhawks.”

    A Board of Inquiry – which was formed after the crashes and
    included someone from the RNZAF; recommended further upgrades but this was not taken up.

    AM – ”Guided rockets or rounds will sometimes be unnecessary and sometimes useful. ”

    True. The long delayed GPS guided round which Avibras is now working on looks promising though; useful for certain targets/scenarios.

    ….. – ”Im in favour of the 120mm mortars (like the us marines m327) being used as the replacement for the 105mm oto melaras,”

    I agree but bear in mind a 120mm can’t totally replicate a 105mm gun. The Australians looked at 120mm mortars when they retired their Hamels but found a 120mm mortar can’t totally replace a 105mm gun. For our purposes, I guess this is not so much of an issue.

    …… – ”I believe some operations, like the kg tanduo siege, would be an overkill to use something like 155mm howitzers there”

    Against any non state actor, or rather the non state actors we are likely to face; a 155mm is an overkill. However, maybe we are using ESSCOM and the non state threat to justify placing 155mm guns in Sabah to avoid perceived provocations by certain neighbours.

    Michael – ”ASTROS and G5 155mm towed howitzer had done a great job during Gulf War.”

    No …… Like other Iraqi assets; the G-5 and ASTROS did not do a ”great job” – the Iraqis were totally outclassed, their target acquisition and fire capabilities left a lot to be desired. The G-5 in South African hands did well. The RTN’s Marines Corps have fired their GHN-45s [based on Gerald Bull’s G-5 design] in anger.

    BTW, we didn’t order G-5s because it was ”battle proven” [which it is] but mainly because we wanted to improve ties with South Africa. Back in the 1990’s we were offered Ratel to supplement the Condor and had we ordered Rooivalk, they would have allowed us to license assemble Oryxs here.

  15. Can we select non-american companies to upgrade the M109s? BAE, Ruag, Rheinmetall and Samsung Techwin all offered upgrade package that extensively improve older M109 performance, even matching/surpassing the performance of A6 Paladin variant.

    Reply
    If we got the US Army to conduct the upgrade it will be done by BAE Systems (its land division is American). If its done in Malaysia it could be any of the companies you mentioned acting as a subcontractor for the Malaysian principal. Personally I prefer the upgrades be done in the US so in case of any problems we can chase after the US Army to fix it. And it will cost much lower.

  16. I think if we really need another tank brigade,we should buy the t14 armata.With the price of 4 million usd you can have the current most powerful tank in the world.Furthermore,the t14 only weight around 48 ton so there should be no problem to operate it in malaysia’s muddy soil.

  17. Lee,

    I never said range doesn’t “matter”; just that – like firepower – it’s not a panacea. There’s a reason why the bulk of artillery exchanges do not take place at maximum range. It’s one thing having range; another completely different thing being able to acquire a target at long range and bring able to hit it …. Other stuff like the doctrine we develop and how we integrate our arty with other assets is also far more vital than “long range”.

    luqman,

    You’re recommending buying a design that has yet to enter service or even complete development. All the great stuff we’ve heard about Armata so far is sales talk. Let’s wait until it actual enters service before we make any conclusions as to how good a tank it is.

  18. On 7 Jun 2015 HeiTech Padu announced that the company has accepted a Letter of Award from the Government for the Procurement of Maintenance Services and Spare Parts for Radar Arthur WLS for a period of three years.

    source Reuters and disclosure to Bursa Malaysia (8th june)

  19. Regarding the 18 ramd. Would they move to melaka to be alongside other PAC battalions or are they staying put in kuala terengganu? Are they now para qualified as per other PAC battalions?

    As for the g5 howitzers, how many did we aquire actually? Some say 28 while others say 22. It would be good if RAD could aquire the 12 g5 howitzers Qatar is retiring (replaced by SPH) to add to the inventory/as a replacement of the 12 fh70 howitzers.

  20. Jordan has just received 8 surplus blackhawk helicopters through US EDA.

    The next item TDM could ask through the EDA should be some additional blackhawks to add to the 4 donated by Brunei. Either that or ask Australia for some of the 14 of their retired blackhawks (20 more still in use to 2020). I see the blackhawks as a more relevant battlefield helicopter for TDM than the nuri, and having additional blackhawks could return the nuris back to tudm.

  21. Well although it still has long hours left and even the US is upgrading it, the S61 is almost 50 years old and should be in a museum.

    I concur that we should get additional black hawks either from ex US or ex Australian stock for the TDM. While TUDM should concentrate only on the Cougars (and hopefully they could get additional Cougars if budget permits)

  22. Well when our enemy has guns that outranges us, has a near real time unmanned recce capabilities, it wouls be a sad day indeed for us. To shoot at them we need to be wirhin their range whereas we may be outside our range but within tge enemies range. We gets shot first.

  23. @ lee yoke meng

    What is with the gloomy note?

    Cheer up sir!

    We are finally getting our own SPH, to add to our astros MLRS and the g5 howitzers. At least for TDM, they are moving forward with their modernisation.

  24. May be its just me, but i believe maybe the decision to put the A109 A6 in Sabah got some push after our neighbour potential presidential candidate saying he will pursue his country claims on Sabah if he wins the election??? Hmmmm

    So this could just be a deterrent strategy to show them that we are serious in relation to Sabah…

    Reply
    No lah, the offer for the SPH was made in early 2015. And I had reported in late 2014 about the planned to have the ESSCOM brigade to be a combined arms unit. Its more likely that the planners were worried about the non-passage of the Bangsamoro basic law rather than anything (proven in late January) which could lead to renewed fighting in Mindanao and the other islands. I am not saying that they are preparing for a spill over into Sabah but the resumption of fighting in the Mindanao and the other southern islands will gave plenty of reasons for the smaller rebel units to find refuge elsewhere.

  25. Lee – ”Well when our enemy has guns that outranges us, has a near real time unmanned recce capabilities, it would be a sad day indeed for us.”

    It will also be a ”sad day” if we have guns with an on paper 35km ”maximum” [not ”effective”] range [using base bleed] but are unable to hit targets at this range because we are unable to acquire the target or can acquire it but are unable to get rounds on target in time because of a cumbersome and unwieldy system of requesting fire missions.

    If indeed we have a need to hit targets that lie beyond the range of our guns or need to perform counter battery fire; we have ASTROS : ever wondered why the Arthur’s are integral to the ASTROS Regiment? Instead of worrying about range; lets hope the Royal Artillery Corps gets non sexy but essential stuff, like mini UAVs for target designation.

    Kamal – ”May be its just me, but i believe maybe the decision to put the A109 A6 in Sabah got some push after our neighbour potential presidential candidate saying he will pursue his country claims on Sabah if he wins the election??? ”

    A more realistic take is that we are using ESSCOM as an excuse to improve our capabilities in Sabah without alarming/offending the Indonesians. Binay’s statement on Sabah is to be expected : it’s election year and he’s trying to attract attention by playing the nationalist card. The vast majority of Filipinos have more pressing day to day matters to worry about than Sabah [unlike the Malvinas issue and Argentines, Sabah does not hold a sentimental attachment or is in the national psyche for the vast majority of Filipinos, except the Tausugs] and whoever becomes President will not change the fact that the Philippines has no plans, nor the capability to take Sabah by force.

    …… – ”As for the g5 howitzers, how many did we aquire actually? Some say 28 while others say 22. ”

    An initial order of 22 [with the Thales AS2000 FCS and Gunzen hand held ballistic computers], followed by an additional 6. From what I’ve been told, there are no plans to acquire additional G-5s.

  26. Why Sabah? Our tracked formations are in the peninsula, our units in Sabah are all wheeled. Shouldn’t they get towed or truck guns?

  27. My query would be why need a 155mm sph in sabah? Wouldnt acv based 120mm mortar or the towed 105mm be more than sufficient to handle the perceived threat from bangsamoro splinter group.

    Reply
    No idea yet Kamal, it will be a question I will ask the Army leadership the first chance I meet with them.

  28. Range matters . Its a case of live oe death. Imagine special forces or our PAC being drop say 30km to the rear of the enemy. Then they find themselves in a tricky situation n calls for fire support. But our guns dont have the range. Sad.
    There is a reason why guns come in 3 calibers n length of batrels to increase the range.
    If ranfe is not impirtant then might as well stay eith the 39 calibers. Now its 58 calibers.
    I have nothing more to say. Just stay with the 105mm pack howitzers. They are great

  29. Am & kamal.

    Imo if wasnt 4 esscom the army wouldnt get any new toys. AH6, Sph and astross 4 fighting the sulus? Why? Why not? Let them milk it 4 whats its worth.

    Reply
    No Astros, not yet. As for me

  30. Lee,

    I never said range doesn’t matter …..

    Range matters but it’s not a solution to everything, we have other issues we need to address first and if one can’t acquire targets at long ranges; then having a ”long” range gun is superfluous. Western armies have long range guns and can hit targets at long ranges because they have the means to acquire targets at long ranges : we don’t ….. BTW, you keep talking about ”long” range but the G-5 with base bleed has an on paper 35-28km range.

    Reply
    ESSCOM brigade will have its disposal the Scaneagles and also the helicopters for long range target acquisition.

  31. All this talk about range, but what is your idea/suggestion to RAD to solve your range deficiencies?

    Right now, excluding the rocket brigade which is considered a strategic asset by malaysian army, we only have 1 regiment of 155mm artillery. Before going into all those long range targeting issues (remember artillery is supposed to be a fire support tool of the troops, so the frontline troops would be the main eyes of the artillery), increasing the number of available 155mm artillery pieces cheaply would be the current priority.

    Getting cheap used m109a6 tracked artillery is a good solution towards that aim, but it has quite a long logistics trail during peacetime movements (it needs to be moved by lowbed trailers like mbt’s). The m109a6 would be a great asset for the proposed 1st brigade armor, but additional regiment of towed 155mm artillery would be more ideal for sabah/sarawak.

    My idea

    1 artillery regiment usually consists of 3 batteries with 6 guns each.

    Currently we have/going to have

    28x g5 155mm
    24x m109a6 155mm

    Easiest way to increase the towed 155mm pieces with the commonality with the current g5 is to get additional g5’s. Qatar is going to retire their 12 g5 replacing them with pzh2000 self propelled howitzers. Getting those would enable RAD to raise a 2nd g5 regiment (last time there was actually a 2nd mixed g5/fh70 regiment, which was disbanded and transformed into the 2nd astros MLRS regiment)

    So with the addition of 12 more g5, rejimen artileri diraja orbat for the 155mm guns could look like this.

    21 RAD – 18x g5 155mm – negeri sembilan

    22 RAD – 18x g5 155mm – sabah

    23 RAD – 18x m109 155mm – negeri sembilan, 6x m109 155mm – sabah

    So RAD would have 1 g5 regiment in penisular, 1 g5 regiment in sabah/sarawak. The m109 would support the 1 brigade armor, with an additional 1 battery detachment in sabah.

  32. The FH-70s retired years ago : barrels wore out.

    The army has no plans to get additional G-5s.

    If indeed we get M-109s, they should be part of one unit and based in the same place rather than being based in penny packets in different parts of the country. There is a school of thought that says a battery should have 4 guns; anything larger and it becomes unwieldy. Same reason why some have gone for 3 tanks in a troop. People are obsessed with range and firepower but what they should really be asking is whether the Royal Artillery Corps has moved with the times by adopting the right doctrine, organisation and mindset. Instead of worrying about range people should really be worrying about how we go about doing the business of placing rounds on target and on time; especially given that in a future conflict, things will be very different to the Confrontation and 2 Emergency.

    Also, has anyone wondered how many people, apart from FOOs, are qualified to call on fire, in any given infantry regiment? How many rounds per gun do we have stockpiled for(off course this is hush hush but it’s worth contemplating on)? We can have all the range we want but if we don’t get some vital fundamentals right; all the range will account for ZERO.

  33. “The FH-70s retired years ago : barrels wore out. ”

    It would have been simple to get new barrels, the gun is still in service with several countries.

  34. Might as well as getting entirely new guns. Keep in mind that we only have a handful of FH-77. Rather than refurb them, it might be better to buy new guns.

    I’ve been saying this in earlier entry, but we could get korean-made KH-179 (155mm, 39cal) for a fraction of price of US-made M777(which is also 155mm,39 cal).

  35. something very interesting (for me at least!)

    DEFTECH Condor Modernized Prototype.

    Interesting points from the single picture:

    1) Unimog-based solid portal axles has given way to multi-link suspension with wider track (compared to the original condor. look how much “terkeluar” the wheels are from the arches). The Condor now sits lower and wider than before. New engines?

    2) turrets replaced with open top cupolas. probably with 0.50cal guns.

    3) very primitively desiged front skid plate. please properly redesign it and move the headlights there (those elaborately designed new headlight housings will just light up the roof of cars, not the road). please benchmark the front skid plate of this APC.
    http://army-news.ru/images_stati/broneavtomobil_kamaz_tajfun_1.jpg

    4) No apparent upgrade of the armor, bulletproof-glasses.

    Looks very2 interesting, IMO a better deal than adding another different vehicle in the shape of the Chaiseri (to me if want to go for the Chaiseri, abandon the Condor, or vise versa). Looks still very much work-in progress, but heading in the right direction IMO.

    Reply
    Sorry I have to delete the picture

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