LIMA 2021 Canceled

RMAF M52-18 taking off for LIMA 17

SHAH ALAM: LIMA 2021 canceled. Its official, LIMA 2021 has been canceled. The Defence Ministry issued a statement today confirming the cancellation of LIMA 2021 scheduled for 16 to 21 March, 2021. The release said the decision to cancel the event was made by the Cabinet at its meeting on 8 July.

It said the decision to cancel was made basically due to the Covid 19 and its medical and economic impacts of the pandemic. What is interesting is that the statement did not state if the event will be held in the future, two years later down the road.

RMAF EC725 flying at the opening ceremony of LIMA 17.

I am of the opinion that the LIMA series was never beneficial to the Malaysian aerospace and defence industries. It might had helped Langkawi developed as a tourist destination but apart from that, I was never convinced of its viability. That said I always tried to be at the show for the last twenty years or so, as a reporter I need to meet the people involved in both industries, even if some of them do not want to speak to me.

French AF Rafale meets up with the PACAF F-16 during the daily display at LIMA 2015.

Apart from Covid 19, the biggest issue for the LIMA series were the cost, the government spends around RM10 million to RM15 million for each show, a princely sum in this times. Some might point out that Langkawi, its people and tourism and support industries have benefited from the show. However as the cost of staging the show came from the Defence Ministry, no one has been able to show how it and the Armed Forces have benefited, from it all this years.

Mig-29N M40-08 at LIMA 2009. last hurrah at Lima

Some might argue, as I pointed out before, that the cancelation could be linked to politics – PM7 is the Langkawi MP – it must be said the viability of most regional defence and airshows are up in the air in the moment. Most would not survived the economic and other impacts of the pandemic.
https://youtu.be/ypa7II3kPCIhttps://youtu.be/ypa7II3kPCI

–Malaysian Defence

If you like this post, buy me an espresso. Paypal Payment

Share
About Marhalim Abas 1730 Articles
Shah Alam

30 Comments

  1. Someone will be murka. Veeerrryyy murka.

    @Marhalim
    “It might had helped Langkawi developed as tourist destination”
    I think that is the main point really.

    “Most would not survived the economic and other impacts”
    Yeah but none of them are the baby of a twice (maybe thrice?) ruling PM. See what happened to the last person who dared touch his sacred babies.

  2. For that matter even the Malaysian Defence Exhibition which is not open to the public has brought no noticeable economic benefit. That too should be cancelled. Its not even doing any good to tourism as that exhibition is closed to the public

    Reply
    No I have not organised any defence shows, LOL. You must be referring to the DSA series exhibitions.
    Most defence exhibitions worldwide are also not open to the public, only airshows have public days.

  3. Recently, I heard Indonesian gov interested to procured 15 ex Austrian Typhoon, sound interesting….

  4. On the Indonesian intent on the Austrian Typhoons.

    Indonesia has the money and needs an advanced air superiority fighter to enlarge its air force to meet its MEF (minimum essential force) requirements. The Su-35 looks to be a dead end, and those used Typhoons would be a good alternative. Indonesia could go the way of Pakistan (with mirages), scooping up all the used tranche 1 typhoons. Right now there are other tranche 1 typhoons to be disposed of, especially from germany and italy. It would be a great way to quickly increase their air superiority capability. Getting used typhoons from austria, germany and italy would probably be enough for 3 squadrons. Recently used typhoons have been offered to Colombia (germany 2020) and Bulgaria (italy 2018)

  5. @ fadiman

    That offer was in 2013 for about euro 60+ million each. But now spain has decided to keep all the tranche 1 typhoons, as is UK.

    @ D.W.

    Yes low flying hours but not as upgraded as other countries typhoon tranche 1.

  6. Tripledot – No surprise there because the Indonesian Defence Minister is a former TNI Army General and he was the main contender vs Pak Jokowi in the last Indonesian election.

    The problem with Malaysia is all our former Menteri Pertahanan were/are donkeys with no military background.

  7. IMO for a country like Austria which is surrounded by allies, a basic peacetime air policing fighter is all that they need.

    FA-50, used Gripen C, or even getting used F-16s from countries upgrading to F-35s like norway would be enough for their needs.

  8. Low flying hours because they cannot maintain the running upkeep cost. I doubt Indon’s Menhan offer was something concrete but it does open doors for opportunities, however such interjections from another country could upset Austrian pride.

  9. @ joe

    This is a lesson for us too. No use of super high tech fighters if you cannot afford to fly them regularly.

    Why IMO right now we need more LCA/LIFT rather than a new MRCA or even more hornets. To afford to regularly fly air policing patrols and stand up QRA missions.

  10. @…
    It is a lesson for all. Unfortunately, planes keep getting more complex and more expensive. The Hornet maint cost won’t differ much from LCA as these planes today are just as complex a beast as legacy Hornets, filled with electronics and subsystems that needs maint & replacing on a scheduled basis. With such highly wired interconnected system on the plane, even a delayed parts replacement could ground the whole plane which isn’t what we need. Looking back at the fiasco with MKMs, any future plane buys must come with a comprehensive maint plan and budget allocation.

    Reply
    The MKM problem was that Russia at that time did not operate the aircraft so we had to make our own. Hence the Finance Ministry were reluctant to give funds for its servicing as they had gotten use to a detailed maintenance list provided by other aircraft in service.

  11. @ joe

    ” With such highly wired interconnected system on the plane, even a delayed parts replacement could ground the whole plane which isn’t what we need ”

    A reason why we cannot buy assets in low numbers. Which is why I see a need of 36 FA-50 and 16 TA-50, to have enough operational units while taking into account aircrafts in maintenance and attrition buffers.

  12. “The Hornet maint cost won’t differ much from LCA as these planes today are just as complex a beast as legacy Hornets, filled with electronics and subsystems that needs maint & replacing on a scheduled basis.”

    Certain things do get cheaper to maintain as they get more advanced. AESA radars being an example. The F-15EX is being designed for 20,000 hours of service.

    “With such highly wired interconnected system on the plane, even a delayed parts replacement could ground the whole plane which isn’t what we need.”

    It’ll fly, just that particular function or data won’t be available. Indeed they aircraft are so designed otherwise they would crash on the slightest malfunction or on taking the slightest hit. These are separate electronic modules that run on a bus, not component parts of a centralized system.

    “Hence the Finance Ministry were reluctant to give funds for its servicing as they had gotten use to a detailed maintenance list provided by other aircraft in service.”

    What a way for a government to work. First they force select your aircraft for you, then they screw you on the maintenance on the grounds that…

  13. @Marhalim
    “gotten use to a detailed maintenance list provided by other aircraft in service.”
    Then the onus really has to fall onto TUDM maint division. They can get the Russki maint part direct from OEM, and I’m sure they could easily get the maint requirements of the Western portions from their source. Combining both and coming out with a scheduled maint plan and budgetary needs, pushing up the chain of command and presenting to Cabinet.

    @…
    “A reason why we cannot buy assets in low numbers.”
    Of course not. In terms of amortisation and cost of maint & uptime availability, having more is better but the problem is we don’t have more money. Having more LCAs in the skies still don’t negate the need for 5th gen planes, it only give opposition 5th gen stealths 36 turkeys to shoot down.

  14. @ joe

    ” Then the onus really has to fall onto TUDM maint division ”

    Not as simple as that. The MKM is a custom airplane. Nobody really know the real maintenance requirements. Similar to the F-35 is currently. As long as no aircraft has gone through the actual servicing, we can only do a guesswork. We can set say every 10 years need to overhaul, but when the time comes, probably that is too conservative and the plane is still in good condition. For example, Sukhoi recommended an overhaul every 10 years or 1500 hours for the MKI. Probably why we grounded our MKM ofter 10 years also during mat sabu times. But actually that recommendation is to conservative. The new recommendation is 14 years or 1500 hours. This is IMO the real reason suddenly our MKM are all operational again. So the MKM overhaul window now is around 2021-2023.
    http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/first-sukhoi-30-overhauled-at-nashik-highlights-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html

    ” Having more LCAs in the skies still don’t negate the need for 5th gen planes ”

    Did i ever say that LCAs can replace 5th gen airplanes?

  15. @AM
    Certainly things may be or may look cheaper to maintain on the long run. But just like a BMW may look cheaper to maintain due to only needing service every 20,000 or 30,000km vs a Toyota with 10,000km intervals, the cost of servicing a BMW is 3-4X more. So the bomb is there, we just don’t see it yet.

    As for the ability to fly with certain functions disabled, I’m not too sure about that. Today’s Volvo trucks are touted to have more computers (ECU) than an airplane and they constantly ‘talk’ to one another. If a critical one drops off (ie airbag fault), the truck may not start or it will go into breakdown mode which is only 10% of drive power for limping into nearest workshop. I am guessing a high tech modern day military plane will act the same if it detects subsystem errors that needs upgrading/replacing.

    “What a way for a government to work.First they force select your aircraft for you, then they screw you on the maintenance”
    It works for the private sector too. 😉

  16. “Volvo trucks are touted to have more computers (ECU) than an airplane and they constantly ‘talk’ to one another. If a critical one drops off (ie airbag fault), the truck may not start or it will go into breakdown mode which is only 10% of drive power for limping into nearest workshop. I am guessing a high tech modern day military plane will act the same if it detects subsystem”

    On civilian vehicles, if a sensor or safety system fails, the idea is to limit engine output as a means of limiting damage to the drivetrain or maintaining human safety.

    The object with military aircraft is the same but being fired on has a profound effect on how you go about achieving that object. If a combat aircraft experiences a systems failure or takes a hit, it is best to get out of harm’s way as expeditiously as possible, not by artificially limit performance for the sake of maximizing parts durability.

    “Volvo trucks are touted to have more computers (ECU) than an airplane and they constantly ‘talk’ to one another.”

    Modern vehicles have plenty of ECUs but the statement is an exaggeration. The highest number of ECUs on new cars and trucks is in the tens.

    “But just like a BMW may look cheaper to maintain due to only needing service every 20,000 or 30,000km vs a Toyota with 10,000km intervals, the cost of servicing a BMW is 3-4X more. ”

    Since we were talking about how new technology can be more affordable sometimes, it is more appropriate for you to compare an old car to a new one, not a high spec and low spec car of the same year. Your analogy is more like comparing a twin engine MRCA with a single engine LIFT.

    As to cars, the introduction of electronics has increased acquisition costs on account of the electronics themselves but has made maintenance a lot easier. Can you imagine how much more laborious and time consuming it would be to diagnose faults without the help of an OBD code scanner? You would be checking every cylinder or every wheel assembly instead of being told which one to check, and where faults are not visually detectable you would be replacing many parts that were actually in good condition.

  17. @AM
    Which is why on modern jets, there’s a long preflight checks being done autonomously and by pilots, if any of these are found, the plane don’t flight much less fight.

    The comparison did was for new BMW with new Toyota, if compared to older Toyota with less electronics, the gap is even wider as the simpler vehicle will cost even less to maintain. Like trying to compare cost of maint F-5 with F-35. The gap will be huge.

    @…
    It was started with the Typhoon talk which became a lesson on high maintenance of top end fighters which we cannot avoid eventually, which somehow morphed into LCA talk. I wonder how that happened?

    Reply
    No lah, modern fighters dont have long pre flight checks.

  18. @Marhalim
    “No lah, modern fighters dont have long pre flight checks.”
    I meant a long list of preflight checks being done (sensors, ECUs, systems & subsystems). However most are self-checked by the plane diagnostics system simultaneously so the actual time taken would be cut short. On older planes, many of the functions are verified by the pilot or engineer so today’s planes are faster to get going.

  19. @ joe

    ” It was started with the Typhoon talk which became a lesson on high maintenance of top end fighters which we cannot avoid eventually, which somehow morphed into LCA talk. I wonder how that happened? ”

    Because you said this

    ” The Hornet maint cost won’t differ much from LCA as these planes today are just as complex a beast as legacy Hornets, filled with electronics and subsystems that needs maint & replacing on a scheduled basis ”

    https://www.malaysiandefence.com/lima-2021-canceled/#comment-430893

    And i replied no, LCAs are much more cheaper to operate than the Hornet.

  20. @…
    Because that was my response to this “Why IMO right now we need more LCA/LIFT rather than a new MRCA or even more hornets”, when that discussion was about top end fighter maintenance. I’m not sure how you correlate both, here we are somehow talking about it.

  21. “http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdTU0a1U8AEWIhF.jpg”

    Simply put, excuse my doubts that such a poorly formatted and worded letter is authentic and represents the capabilities of the Indonesian MoD. Or that one of the few people to have seen it would have leaked it for our entertainment.

  22. “The comparison did was for new BMW with new Toyota, if compared to older Toyota with less electronics, the gap is even wider as the simpler vehicle will cost even less to maintain. ”

    Yes, I said that BMWs or MRCAs would cost more to operate than contemporary Toyotas or LCAs. But would a new aircraft or Toyota cost more to operate than an older one? Not necessarily.

    Generally, from the beginning of aviation up to the third generation of fighter aircraft, the complexity and maintenance workload of high end fighter aircraft were on the uptrend. It was only with the fourth generation that advancements in miniaturization and the capabilities of electronics, and some conscious effort from designers, that maintenance demands have become more manageable.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.


*