Eagles, Typhoons and Rafale Too

Spanish Air Force single and two seater Eurofighter Typhoon from ALA-11 based in Moron, Spain. The aircrat are flying with drop tanks and IRIS-T missiles. Eurofighter

SHAH ALAM: Eagles, Typhoons and Rafale too. Qatar has signed a deal with the UK for 24 Eurofighter Typhoons and a package weapons including the MBDA Meteor AAM and Brimstone AGM worth an estimated US$8 billion on Dec. 10. The deal also include training for pilots and maintainers to be conducted in the UK.

The deal will also result in formation of a “joint operational squadron,” featuring both British and Qatari military pilots who will fly together to protect the 2022 Football World Cup.

RAF Eurofighter Typhoon. Crown Copyright

The contract comes just days after Qatar signed up to buy 12 additional Dassault Rafales from France, adding to the 24 it already has on order, as well as the 36 Boeing F-15QA Advanced Eagles being purchased from the U.S.

Qatar now has ordered 96 fighter jets to replace the 12 Dassault Mirage 2000s currently used for the Gulf state’s air defense.

Dassault Rafale

BAE Systems statement on the deal.

BAE Systems and the Government of the State of Qatar have entered into a contract, valued at approximately £5bn, for the supply of Typhoon aircraft to the Qatar Emiri Air Force along with a bespoke support and training package.
The contract is subject to financing conditions and receipt by the Company of first payment, which are expected to be fulfilled no later than mid-2018.

The contract provides for 24 Typhoon aircraft with delivery expected to commence in late 2022.

BAE Systems is the prime contractor for both the provision of the aircraft and the agreed arrangements for the in-service support and initial training. Charles Woodburn, BAE Systems Chief Executive said:

“We are delighted to begin a new chapter in the development of a long-term relationship with the State of Qatar and the Qatar Armed Forces, and we look forward to working alongside our customer as they continue to develop their military capability”.

F-15 Eagle

Qatar is also expected to sign the contract for six Hawk training aircraft. However no contract has been signed yet for the deal.

— Malaysian Defence

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Shah Alam

35 Comments

  1. isit me or the mud hens are still selling like hot cakes albeit Typhoons, Rafales and Sukhois. Just Wow ! 96 platforms to replace 12 mirages!
    one wonders how there going to churn out pilots and wizzos!
    contractors maybe ?

  2. Is Qatar giving away any fighters by any chance⁇

    Reply
    They have 12 Mirage 2000, probably India will be interested. As for the new ones they can decide later on

  3. Basically Qatar is paying for those countries to be by its side when it is now boycotted by most arab countries. But even that is not a given, as history shows. Just remember what happened to Kedah. The kedah sultan gave penang to the british, expecting them to protect kedah from the siamese. But when Siam attacked in 1810, the british did nothing, and Kedah lose Junk Ceylon (Ujong Salang – Phuket), Krabi, Trang, Setol (Satun) and Perlis.

    Off topic,

    Info from bulgaria for their MiG-29 maintenance. They spent usd49 million to overhaul 15 Mig-29, plus 4 years of integrated logistics support from RAC MiG. So that is the ballpark number to retain the MiGs as a stopgap while waiting for the MRCA to come

  4. Total cost of Qatar fighter buy

    24 Rafale plus training and weapons usd7.5 billion

    12 Rafale usd1.3 billion

    24 Typhoon plus training and weapons usd8 billion (delivery 2022)

    36 F-15QA plus training and weapons usd12 billion.

    Total of usd28.8 billion!!!

  5. Qatar’s purchase is not so much a wise strategic planning as an attempted payoff to the various Mafias so they do not to stand by should its neighborhood sand m*nkey gangs (GCC) decide to ram up the tension. Remember what happened to Gaddafi’s Libya when he forgot to pay protection money (i.e. arms purchase) from the Mafias…

    Btw, what about the discussion to buy surplus equipment from a certain Middle East despot? I was hoping that with the way things are going financially, that clown prince might be thinking to have a military garage sale soon since that recent round of familicide did not seem to generate much revenue (at least not enough for the clown prince’s shopping tendency of splurging 1 billion buck for a painting and a yacht), not to mention his plan to sell a stake in the national oil company had hit a snake… Anyway, it made me really uneasy to see our dopey MoD standing there zombie-like in the recent so called “A*ab NATO” meeting. Sincerely praying that Malaysia do not get dragged into some sand m*nkey conflicts…

  6. Taib: “Is Qatar giving away any fighters by any chance⁇”

    Why is there a mentality that Kuwait, Saudi Arabia or now Qatar are fond of giving away fighters?

  7. Procurement cost is one thing; the ”hidden” cost is that a small and human resource Qatari air force will have to set up different training/support/logistical infrastructures to support its varied fighter fleet. At the end of the day, just like how Netanyahu and Trump know the Arab world will do nothing except hold ”emergency meetings” [which accomplish nothing], complain and hold demonstrations regarding Jerusalem; the Qatari leadership knows fully well that anyone threatening Qatar will incur the wrath of Uncle Sam. Buying all the new toys will ”deter” other Arabs but the real value is that its buys political goodwill from the West.

  8. ezani ahmad – ”ya. pilot import dari bangadesh….”

    In many areas the Bangladeshi are very competent. Starting years we sent people to their staff college and more recently the RMAF has sent people there for flight training. Traditionally the Gulf Arabs have relied on contract Pakistani pilots, who are highly rated. Years ago the Saudis even had a whole Pakistani brigade.

  9. kerberos – ”Anyway, it made me really uneasy to see our dopey MoD standing there zombie-like in the recent so called “A*ab NATO” meeting. ”

    Is it really our ”dopey MoD” or from further up? It’s rhetoric that’s all – period/full stop. Nothing more. When Saddam went south in 1991, Mahathir said we wouldn’t deploy troops to Saudi unless Mecca was threatened; off course Mecca would never have been threatened.

  10. “Traditionally the Gulf Arabs have relied on contract Pakistani pilots, who are highly rated. ”

    Which comes to nothing since their C2 is incompetent. This is not only because of human incompetence and royal patronage but also because communications are centralized to make it harder to coordinate a coup.

    The Saudis have a high number of princes in F-15s and because of this, their F-15 squadrons even had higher training hours than their NATO counterparts. Still, they put up a poor performance in the Persian Gulf War.

    Gulf Arab states rely on contract pilots to an extent- not sure of the extent. Recently the UAE put out a video on their F-16s and made a point to showcase their local pilots.

    “Is it really our ”dopey MoD” or from further up? It’s rhetoric that’s all – period/full stop”

    Exactly. You don’t have to feel bad because we contribute nothing to that mess.

  11. still not enough…they still need another 36 unit of flankers

    Reply
    I think its the UAE that is thinking of buying a dozen or so Flankers

  12. @ Azlan

    ” starting years we sent people to their staff college ”

    Emm it was the other way round. Bangladesh only gained their independence in 1971.

  13. There was 1 pilatus PC-7 crash in 1993 that involved a bangladeshi trainee pilot. It crashed due to engine problems in alor setar.

  14. AM – ”Which comes to nothing since their C2 is incompetent.”

    Irrespective of whether their C2 was incompetent back in the 70’s and 80’s Pakistani pilots were highly needed, at a time when the Gulf Arabs had human resource issues. Pakistani contract pilots were also well rated and many were highly sought over by regional airlines.

    AM – ”You don’t have to feel bad because we contribute nothing to that mess.”

    Maybe not but the fact remains that we’ve taken sides a long time ago and continue to do so.

    … – ”Emm it was the other way round. Bangladesh only gained their independence in 1971.”

    No it wasn’t the ”other way around”…… Bangladesh may have only gained independence in 1971 but their training establishments were in place way before; courtesy of their British and Punjabi overlords.

    As far back as 1979 a future CO of 3 Squadron attended a staff course there – this was way before they sent anyone here. As far back as 2015 there were a few RMAF pilots in Bangladesh attending a flying course. Just like how their army Majors attend Highgate, we’ve sent army officers to their staff college.

  15. Mr Azlan and Mr …

    Regardless of Qatar capability to buy 96 fighter, and we are not…

    What if we equip our air force with :

    a) 2 – 6 Saab AWACS ER
    b) 18 – 36 Gripen D

    Reason being we cannot afford to buy Rafale/Typhoon/Super Hornet. Rather than spending RM10 – RM20 Bilion for 18-24 new fighter alone, i think it is wise to get Gripen couple with Saab Awacs ER for better range detection, since Gripen D cannot be fitted with AESA radar.

    Hopefully by 2035 – 2040 , when 5th and 6th generation fighter is matured, we can afford to this new type of fighter.

    By the way, in your expert opinion, how many fighter should RMAF get to defend this country ?

    36 or 54 or 72 fighter ?

    Thank you…..

  16. Off topic

    TNI-AU has laid out its future requirements.

    In the plans are 3 additional fighter squadrons, 2 transport squadrons, 1 helicopter squadrons, 2 UAV squadrons. Other wish list are 4 AEW&CS, 4 jet tankers, amphibious aircrafts.

  17. …: “TNI-AU has laid out its future requirements.”

    We don’t need additional transports, tankers and amphibians, unlike the large country that they are. It’s the UAVs and fighters that will lead to us being left well behind.

    They also have a willingness to consider good used assets that makes our self imposed, new-only, gold plated policy look silly.

    Mohd Wafi Mohammad:

    Gripen D does not have AESA but if we or anyone ordered Gripen today, it would sensibly be the Gripen E which has AESA mounted on a repositioner for a wide field of view, and IRST which is something every fighter should have.

  18. @ mohd wafi

    For my opinion on your question, this is what i have said previously here on this page

    http://www.malaysiandefence.com/brimstone-and-typhoon/#comment-287985

    Getting gripen C/Ds… It is a good aircraft on its own. But when you put it into TUDMs overall context, it is a halfway house, not advanced enough for a proper MRCA but not cheap/simple enough to be used as a LIFT (lead in fighter trainer) or a replacement for the Hawks. Look at Thailand. Got the gripens, and have to buy the T-50TH Golden Eagles for LIFT. 2 different fighter types, when it could be commonised with just 1 type. I would prefer the TA/FA-50, get like 40 airplanes for both a low cost fighter with QRA and close attack capability, while also suitable for LIFT training new fighter pilots. That could probably be had for around RM6 billion for 40 aircrafts.

    As for AWACS, as intrim the future MPA could have a rudimentary air to air C2 function in its requirement. Most new AESA maritime search radars like the Leonardo Seaspray 7000E has 200nm range and a dedicated air to air search function. So it can be used as a basic AWACS, in addition to maritime patrol and overland ISR functions.

  19. Wafi – ”By the way, in your expert opinion, how many fighter should RMAF get to defend this country ?”

    The question should be : if we rapidly increase the number of fighters we have, do we have enough pilots getting past FTC 3 annually and do we have enough trainers?

    Gripen is a great fighter and can do the job BUT the requirement is for a twin engine fighter. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it’s the systems not the platform that makes the key difference. A 28 year old Fulcrum linked to a AWE would have far better SA than a brand new Gripen or Typhoon [even with a AESA] operating on its own.

    AM – ”They also have a willingness to consider good used assets that makes our self imposed, new-only, gold plated policy look silly.”

    They also have a tendency to operate a bit of everything[look at how many Su-27/30 variants they have] and their procurement decisions are – like us – based on politics and national interests – rather than practicality and commonality.

  20. “They also have a tendency to operate a bit of everything[look at how many Su-27/30 variants they have] and their procurement decisions are – like us – based on politics and national interests – rather than practicality and commonality.

    They’re not immune to serving national interests (eg assembling 3 A400M locally) but they did get used F-16s, Leopards and Marders recently. Some Leopards were upgraded but even so, they and the rest of the equipment was not gold plated with customised fittings that had to be developed from scratch.

    We have never or almost never done such a thing in decades. I’m not completely certain but the last used asset we bought was the Inderapura.

    Indonesia operates 16 Su-27/30s in 4 variants and commonality between them is limited. But we should note some of them were acquired long ago. They bought in the numbers they could afford and it wouldn’t have made sense to have bought an old version for the sake of greater commonality.

  21. “Irrespective of whether their C2 was incompetent back in the 70’s and 80’s Pakistani pilots were highly needed, at a time when the Gulf Arabs had human resource issues. ”

    I was referring to Saudi C2 and not Pakistani C2. While the Arabs’ new air forces may have desperately needed the Pakistani pilots, it would be debatable to call them competent considering the PAF’s combat record.

  22. AM,

    Pakistan may have lost all the wars fought against India but by and large their pilots did perform well and despite numerous problems facing the country [including corruption], the PAF is considered a competent organisation. So I guess at times a country’s armed forces may not be a reflection of the social and economic factors effecting that country.

    Yes I was aware you were referring to Arab C2 and not Pakistani.

    And prior to Inderapura, the 2 Albatross, in 1986 I think. It’s a good thing we rejected the Oberons and cancelled the Tornados.

  23. AZLAN – “They also have a tendency to operate a bit of everything[look at how many Su-27/30 variants they have] and their procurement decisions are – like us – based on politics and national interests – rather than practicality and commonality.”

    Not anymore, their older flankers have been upgraded recently to the later variant. Well, that is the advantage when you have uncostumed one, easier and cheaper to upgrade.

    Their procurement decisions based on politics and national interest but the result can be seen. They have defence industry much ahead. In the near future they can built tank, fighter and even submarine locally, their defence industry already pass SG. But here is based heavily on politics.

    AM – “They also have a willingness to consider good used assets that makes our self imposed, new-only, gold plated policy look silly.”

    Silly indeed, how many of us questioned and laugh at their procurement decisions. But now, is the other way around

  24. Romeo – ”Not anymore, their older flankers have been upgraded recently to the later variant.”

    How does one bring Su-27SK/SKMs and Su-30MKs/MK2s to a common standard?? Irrespective of how upgraded they are, the fleet still consists of several different Su-27/30 variants; each with different systems and capabilities.

    Romeo – ” their defence industry already pass SG.”

    No it hasn’t ….

    Romeo – ”how many of us questioned and laugh at their procurement decisions.”

    You mean like buying different Su27/30 variant, arming a handful of ships with Yakhont despite the integration involved and lack of OTHT and increasing – by spreading procurement – rather than decreasing their logistical footprint?

    No doubt, there are areas they have done well but also areas they haven’t.

  25. AZLAN – ” How does one bring Su-27SK/SKMs and Su-30MKs/MK2s to a common standard?? Irrespective of how upgraded they are, the fleet still consists of several different Su-27/30 variants; each with different systems and capabilities.”

    No, you misunderstood there. Indon flankers now only consist of 2 variants after the upgrade program SU27 SKM (single seater) and SU30 MK2 (double seater).

    AZLAN – “No it hasn’t ….”
    We can agree to disagree,
    With the new capability in tanks, subs, fighters, rockets and bomb. Indon defence industry is leading now. Unlike SG and MY, ID never gold plated their equipment, but it doesnt means their defence industry can not make for them.

    AZLAN – “You mean like buying different Su27/30 variant, arming a handful of ships with Yakhont despite the integration involved and lack of OTHT and increasing – by spreading procurement – rather than decreasing their logistical footprint?”

    They just do what they can do, lack of money prevent them. They buy flankers in small number in different time. It is unavoidable they have 4 variants. But the upgrade programme helps them reduce to 2 variants.
    Yakhont was bought during ambalat tension, I tbink they bought it in desperate moment. Lack of money and capability. Their weapons are old and their ships are too old.

    With only just 10-15 years, their road map in procurement helps local defence industry booming. There are some lessons in it. Others are making progress rapidly.

  26. Romeo – ”With the new capability in tanks, subs, fighters, rockets and bomb. Indon defence industry is leading now.”

    Buying sexy hardware does not indicate the level of any country’s ”defence industry”; nor does it mean that Indonesia is ahead of Singapore [as you mentioned].

    Romeo – ”They just do what they can do, lack of money prevent them. ”

    A lack of money is not the answer as to why they operate/ordered different Su-27/30 variants – and will soon get Su-35s. A lack of money also does not account on why the TNI-AL has Exocets, Yakhont and the C-705 and both Mil-35s and Apache; nor does it explain why Korps Marinir has BMP 2s/3s, BTR-80s and LVT7s on top of its PT-76s, AMX 10s and BTR-50s; as well as 2 different types of MLRS.

    Like us Indonesian procurement is also heavily driven by political factors.

    Romeo – ”Yakhont was bought during ambalat tension, I tbink they bought it in desperate moment.”

    Really? And how did having Yakhont on a handful of ships and lacking the capability to fully exploit Yakhont’s range contribute [from an Indonesian perspective] towards achieving a favourable outcome with regards to Ambalat?

    Romeo – ”There are some lessons in it.”

    No doubt BUT there are also lessons of what not to do.

  27. “A lack of money also does not account on why the TNI-AL has Exocets, Yakhont and the C-705 and both Mil-35s and Apache; nor does it explain why Korps Marinir has BMP 2s/3s, BTR-80s and LVT7s on top of its PT-76s, AMX 10s and BTR-50s; as well as 2 different types of MLRS. ”

    Actually a lack of money does explain that hodgepodge partially. In that some of those systems came aboard second hand ships or were scooped up on the cheap more than 25 years ago.

    But yes, the large part of that mix comprises recent acquisitions and was the result of choice.

  28. mr ….
    that is an interesting price for 5th gen aircraft. based on the statement it have all except no mention about weapon package. hopefully some of RMAF personnel know and study this and wait the MRCA to gain 5th gen

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