Greece Orders 18 Rafales

Dassault Rafale. Anthony Pecchi

SHAH ALAM: Greece orders 18 Dassault Rafales as part of the country’s military modernisation programme as it face tensions with Turkey over the latter’s plans for oil and gas exploration in a disputed part of the Mediterranean Sea.

Apart from the Rafales, Greece will also upgrade 10 of its Mirage 2000-5 jets, buy four new multi role frigates and upgrade four older frigates, four ASW helicopters and new guided weapons for the navy, air force and army.

Dassault Rafale display at LIMA 17

According to Greek media, a number of Rafales – eight – will arrived in Greece by mid-2021 indicating that these are French Air Force aircraft likely to be used to train pilots on their new mounts. The Greek on September 12 announced their intention to order the Rafale.
Dassault Rafale

The release from Dassault Aviation.

Saint-Cloud, France, September 12, 2020 – Greece announced today its intention to acquire 18 Rafales to equip its air force.

This announcement illustrates the strength of the partnership that has linked the Greek Air Force and Dassault Aviation for more than 45 years, and demonstrates the enduring strategic relationship between Greece and France.

Greece ordered 40 Mirage F1 from Dassault Aviation in 1974, then 40 Mirage 2000 in 1985 and finally 15 Mirage 2000-5 in the year 2000; this latest contract also includes the modernization of 10 Mirage 2000 to the 2000-5 standard with a large contribution from Greek industry.

“I am delighted with this announcement, which reinforces the exceptional relationship we have had with Greece for nearly half a century, and I thank the Greek authorities for their confidence in us once again. Dassault Aviation is fully mobilized to meet the operational needs expressed by the Greek Air Force, and thus contribute to ensuring Greece’s sovereignty and the safety of the Greek people,” said Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation.

French AF Rafale meets up with the PACAF F-16 during the daily display at LIMA 2015.

It must be noted that the Greek air force also operates some 170 F-16s in various blocks , 30, 50 and 52s. It is interesting to see that a country which faces threats and coercion from another country – although both belong to the same military block – feels the need to modernise its military despite the economic hardships it is facing.

— Malaysian Defence

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29 Comments

  1. first question

    ada tender ke tak? hihihi.

    jokes aside. congratulations to both france and greece. those rafales and belharras will contribute much to the defence of greece and economy of france.

    Anyway IMO we should look into doing something of the same with South Korea. Getting the FA/TA-50 in the numbers that we need and looking at the HDF-2600 to finally give our navy the 6 frigates that we need by 2025.

  2. Understand that Greek AF is a long time operator of Dassault planes.

    Wonder how these Europeans manage to fund their modernisation programme in this time of economic hardships. Perhaps our Finance Minister can get some “tips” from Greece on how to do it…haha.

  3. If Greek can Buy The rafale Despite their economy crisis.

    Why malaysia didn’t buy the rafale at the same time even we have Good Economy.

  4. Safran,

    Because Greece has a clear and present threat (one which can actually lead to war) in that shape of Turkey.

    Even in the 1980’s when it’s economy was also slow; it allocated quite a bit on defence because of Turkey; as well as to meet certain NATO obligations.
    It also helps that Greek politicians; whether in government or not; are agreed on the need to spend on defence against Turkey;a country it has had issues with spanning centuries.

  5. Paying to upgrade 35 year old planes to a standard 20 years ago must seem to be very logical. Greece should bring back their hoplon shields next.

    @Safran
    Greece just exited their EU debts in 2018, and despite the long and gruelling journey to payoff, they managed that in just 10 years and yet still maintain their high income nation status.

  6. With debt to GDP ratio at 179,% in 2017, buying 18 more Rafale will not do anymore damage to the sinking economy. It’s like selling to a person who can never pay. I wonder this will eventually turn into another bad loan write off by the French government. To act as the Mediterranean policeman is not cheap. Germany, a richer country is very reluctant of this.

  7. Hope that our gov will get those ex Kuwait AF Legacy Hornet and upgrades it to mod-25x with aesa radar to full filled our air force needs…

  8. @Zaidi
    I kinda agree. We’re talking about Greece! It’s not known to crank up military hardware the scale Turkey’s doing. And it believes it’s doing EU a service by egging the richer North from giving EU membership to Turkey these many years. And there’s justified nervousness on its part for the ‘obstacles’ it has helped set-up to block Turkey’s past EU ambitions. So with the current East Mediterranean, well, Greece is in deep sx#x… 🙂

  9. @…

    “Anyway IMO we should look into doing something of the same with South Korea. Getting the FA/TA-50 in the numbers that we need…”

    Not sure if that is possible with the Israel avionics onboard. You suggesting we swap them out with something else? Are they okay with that though?

  10. @ ¯\_( ツ)_/¯

    “Not sure if that is possible with the Israel avionics onboard. You suggesting we swap them out with something else?”

    We have used israeli designed JHMCS flight helmets, and ADM-141 TALD for our hornets.

    As long as those avionics is built by korean companies it should be acceptable i guess.

  11. @Dundun
    I agree. Greece is just shoring up its defense of islands of Cyprus and isles that’s adjacent to the Turkish mainland

  12. @Safran
    With Turkey now basically saying “f you” to NATO without actually leaving the alliance, Greece is the new southern flank and they are very aware of that. Hence why they have not reduced their defence expenditure and on the other side NATO haven’t complained.

    By the way Greece got into their problem because the Govts were giving absolutely massive goodies to the rakyat, especially the pensions which were mind blowing, and not investing in industrialisation. Something we should think about… looking at our own pension schemes and other assistance… and lack of industry…

  13. Dundun – “urkish heavy industry is pretty much on par with south korea”

    No it is not ….

    When it comes to several areas; including R&D the Koreans are way ahead of the Turks. The Turks have also benefited from tie ups with the Koreans.

    Taib,

    Greece is a member of the EU and benefits from the diplomatic and economic support which comes from being a EU member.

    Also bear in mind that the Turkish economy isn’t in such great shake either. The Lira has plunged in value.

    Turkey is also deeply involved in Libya and Syria; huge drain on financial resources.

    Fadiman – “If our air force has some experience to operates previous French made jet it may consider to get those Rafale…”

    One does not necessarily need “some experience to operates previous French” to operate Rafale. Just like how one doesn’t need prior experience in operating British in the event one buys Typhoon …..

    The RMAF will not “consider” Rafale as there’s no requirement at present for a multi role platform; not is there the money – as you very well know ..

  14. Chua – “Greece is the new southern flank”

    Greece and Turkey have always been NATO’s key “southern flank” as both are at the eastern end of the Med, both are not far from the Middle East and both are close to the southern portions of Russia (the Soviet Union before that).

    During the Cold War both shared borders with Warsaw Pact member countries. In Turkey’s case it provided (an outlet to the Black Sea).

  15. If we are so short of cash for the military, where the hell did the $14 billion MYR suddenly appear for the Sabah beef up if you believe the news reports?

    Reply
    That I believe is the money they planned to spend the next 10 years. Whether or not the amount will be allocated is another story

  16. @ marhalim

    “That I believe is the money they planned to spend the next 10 years. Whether or not the amount will be allocated is another story”

    That amount they planned for sabah is, actually higher than the army’s total development budget for the last 10 years… and if they really gonna raise 3 new artillery regiments, it is a significant enlargement of the royal artillery regiments. if they need to honour their words without any increase in defence spending, probably all new assets in the next 10 years must be allocated for sabah.

  17. Malaysia does have a decent industrial base, it’s not that we are totally reliant on tourism alone. The focus now should be the transition from manufacturing to R&D. The GST should be revived too.

    Out of 18 Ragales ordered, only 6 are newly built; the rest are from taken from French Air Force.

  18. @ASM
    Less now than before

    No, we have practically zero heavy industry to speak of. Our prior expertise is in consumer products (washers, fridges, kitchen appliances) and electronics (TVs, hard disks) but this has taken a hit in recent years…

    Even our POL expertise is inferior to other neighbours in terms of processing, as we are mostly in the area of exploitation and extraction.

  19. It depends on your definition of “heavy industry”. We have a healthy construction and infrastructure sector; that can be considered as heavy industry. Chemical and electronics too, not just limited to consumer electronics but also other kinds of sectors too, like automotive and aerospace.

    What is POL?

  20. Chua “Our prior expertise is in consumer products (washers, fridges, kitchen appliances) and electronics (TVs, hard disks) but this has taken a hit in recent years…”

    Problem is our most competitive industries are those that have low value added, and which employ foreigners in the millions because Malaysians don’t want to work in them.

    ASM “Out of 18 Ragales ordered, only 6 are newly built; the rest are from taken from French Air Force.”

    There is urgency on the part of the Greeks and this is the only way to meet their deadline. Egypt wanted a FREMM quickly so a French navy ship was transferred and the French will build a replacement for themselves. We got our Fulcrums relatively quickly because they were assembled from incomplete airframes and were not newly built in the understood sense.

  21. Off topic

    Indonesia reported that a BAKAMLA vessel drove off a CCG vessel that attempted to “patrol” off Natuna, last week.

    RSN’s first Type 218SG started sea trials earlier this month.

  22. @ AM

    I posted a long write about the bakamla issue here but marhalim did not approve it.

    basically that area is way inside vietnamese EEZ, but now claimed by both indonesia and china.

  23. AM – “ We got our Fulcrums relatively quickly because they were assembled from incomplete airframes and were not newly built in the understood sense”

    Same situation with the PT-91s. Bumar Laberdy had/has stocks of hulls and turrets.

    Our Hornets were also taken from stocks originally intended for the USN.

  24. @ azlan

    ” Same situation with the PT-91s. Bumar Laberdy had/has stocks of hulls and turrets ”

    from polish sources documenting the PT-91M build, they actually restarted hull/turret manufacturing specially for the malaysian order.

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