SHAH ALAM: It appears that I was too hasty to state that the LMS Batch 2 will be fitted with a South Korean-made vertical launch system and surface-to-air missiles. Infact, the South Korean option is one of the proposals for the SAM system, being considered by the RMN.
The MBDA Sea Ceptor (Albatross) and VL MICA surface to air missiles, defence industry sources told Malaysian Defence, are also under consideration for three LMS Batch 2. Four Sea Ceptors can quad-packed on the VLS on the rear part of Batch 2 and four MICAs if selected. The MICA, if you recall, is the SAM for the LCS.
The three VLS and SAM options remained on the table as the negotiations for the LMS Batch 2 between RMN and STM shipyard has yet to be concluded.
The Letter of Award (contract) is only expected to be signed when Defence Minister DS Khaled Nordin officially visits Turkiye, next month. This depends on the conclusion of the negotiations between RMN and STM, of course.
For the record it is unclear whether the Letter of Intent (LOI) will be publicly awarded to STM at the contract signing ceremonies scheduled on the third (tomorrow) day of DSA 2024. The LOI for the LMS Batch 2 was awarded to STM in February this year.
The Malaysian variant will also differ from their Turkish one as they will be fitted with four diesel engines or the Combined Diesel and Diesel (CODAD) configuration, like the LCS. The Turkish Ada-class is fitted with two diesel engines and a gas turbine -combined diesel and gas (CODAG) configuration.
With the CODAD configuration, there is no need for RMN to procure extra gas turbines (Lockheed Martin LM2500 as used in the Turkish Ada-class) as reserves in case of faults.
— Malaysian Defence
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To me, its better to makes the features of ada-class corvette (some if not many) as close as gowind-class lcs for the sake of commonality.
$ will be a big factor. Korean will be the top considerations.
How about SSM? What type of missile and how many launchers?
Its likely Atmaca and eight launchers.
Buy in bulk get cheaper price. If money & commonality is a factor then the most logical choice would be the MICA as it will also be installed on the LCS?
Ok so nothing is certain yet on the SAM front… yet.
But frankly speaking for RM 500mil or USD $105mil (after deduct the ‘whatever fees’) do you think its possible to have an ADA equipped as it were intended by TLDM?
And speaking of it, any indicators will these be built in Turk or the more politically palatable TOT build in Msia?
Both Pakistan and Ukraine ship have Havelsan Genesis as their CMS. If we also use Havelsan CMS, my guess is we will go with Sea ceptor/Mica for SAM
These are powerful ships. IMHO more frigate level than corvettes. They are even bigger than the current Lekius.
Marhalim, are the numbers still 3 + 5 as originally planned? Obviously the money has come from somewhere, so I wonder if it a Turkish loan at a low interest rate?
Yup
The three ships will be built in Turkey
The South Korean option came from the left field and not from the service.
No loan.
Marhalim, what do you make of the pakatan n
between Lunas and PT Pal ? A sign of things to come?
It has been done before in 2016/2018. I am wondering whether there will be funds for the MRSS even in the next RMK as they need to fund LCS and LMS Batch 2 first.
The budget for LMS Batch 2
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/et-tu-lms-batch-ii-part-ii
” With a budget of RM2.5 billion, the fully equipped LMS Batch II should cost around RM833 million per ship which is still lower than the average price of 900 to 2500 tonnes corvettes, according to AMI International, a defence consultancy had said. AMI stated that average cost of such corvettes for the last ten years is around US$250 million (around RM1.05 billion) per ship. ”
The budget for 1x LMS Batch 2 is RM833 million per ship. With current exchange rates, it is only around USD175 million.
For the same budget of 3 LMS batch 2, we can buy 15 of my proposed LMS-X
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLww1BDbQAAtHw0.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMpdKk2a8AAsA6q.jpg
Kena spanar left field again so nothings change much. Sigh…
I wonder if we can even afford integration cost even if the SAM will be FFBNW as we still need to install the launchers.
I am told the SAM will be paid for
… – ”For the same budget of 3 LMS batch 2, we can buy 15 of my proposed LMS-X”
Yes but the reality is we’re not and yes you had the foresight and eternal wisdom [all praise] to come up with the ”LMS-X” which you perennially mention. BTW the fact that we hardly get the best or most optimum value for what we spend is a widely known fact.
Tom Tom – ”IMHO more frigate level than corvettes. ”
Fine line between a ”corvette” and ”frigate”. As pointed out to ”…” a corvette doesn’t necessarily mean it’s less well armed; merely its for specific roles. One can and does have ”corvettes” better armed that some ”frigates”. No fixed distinction. A ‘frigate” in one navy could also be a ‘destroyer” in another.
I am perplexed š§ too. Where has all this money suddenly come from? I wonder if a certain rich friendly brotherly Middle Eastern country with lots of oil is quietly giving or loaning money to Malaysiaā¦perhaps??
We obviously can afford integration and certification or we wouldnāt be doing it. The question is really what issues we might face later; the issue with the Lekius come to mind.
@ marhalim
” I am told the SAM will be paid for ”
If that ship can be had within the USD175 million budget with fully paid for armaments including SAM and AShM, i would be very impressed.
Going for K-SAAM will have a numerical advantage as each VLS can fit 4 missiles. Compared to the new VL MICA NG, it only has 20km range, still much more than the 10km range of the VL seawolfs.
@TomTom
“certain rich friendly brotherly Middle Eastern country with lots of oil”
Are you talking about that same country whose prince purportedly donated billions to our PM? But since were not gonna believe this so can we believe that? Hmmm…
“We obviously can afford integration and certification”
But what are we going to sacrifice to pay for it. Being 1st to do, its not gonna be cheap for us. So how much left will really be used for the hardware? We should be grateful if no TOT cost involved but if our politicians start to raise a stink and the Govt is pressured to take back 1-2 units for local assembly, you can betcha the cost will go overboard very fast. Then it will be LCS 2.0 all over again.
So if Marhalim said is true, an ADA with all the sensors, all the weapons, and new integration cost, it is serious a bargain. Which leads me to question; will this be another “underfunded project with intention to topup the shortfall with supplementary budgets” again as with the LCS?
Joe,
I suspect someone like MBS might be behind this:
1. Right from the start the ADA class was chosen. Very unusual for Malaysia.
2. Itās a win win situation helping two countries from the Islamic world at the same time. The Turkish economy is struggling and Malaysia is desperate for boats.
3. The Malaysian budget is about 175 million USD for each boat. The ADAs will cost, letās say 260 million USD total each. Thatās 85 million USD baki.
4. 85 million USD x 3 is 255 million USD. Thatās loose change for some countries.
5. They have a history of doing the same thing. I think itās was Egypt that got help buying the Rafael and frigates about 10 years ago.
Whatever was bought would still have meant that something else would not have been funded. Inevitable. Itās also not the case of integration and certification costing 30-40 percent of the total budget.
Integration and certification are also a one time cost. The real worry are issues surfacing at a later date after integration and certification has been performed; issues which are eventually never rectified. We have [like others] experienced this before.
175M sounds too good to be true. Perhaps the armaments will be paid separately with another contracts. Like the LCS long list of agreements. Or worst it will be a FFBNW. The defense contracts in this country were never clear & transparent. Thereās always a catch. Nothing has changed even with this new government
No lah
Tom Tom – ”They have a history of doing the same thing. I think itās was Egypt that got help buying the Rafael and frigates about 10 years ago.”
That was Egypt’s reward for overthrowing the Muslim Brotherhood which was democratically elected.
Qamarul – ”The defense contracts in this country were never clear & transparent. ”
Contracts in other places too – for various reasons – are at times not ”clear & transparent”.
Qamarul – ”Nothing has changed even with this new government”
You expected ”change”?
“You expected āchangeā?”
Wait, isnt that why majority voted for UBAH?
Azlan- You expected āchangeā?
No leh.. i voted for the other guy. But later he sembang kari & decide to be friend with his ācikguā. Darth Vader level of betrayals.
Regardless which missiles, RMN is going forward with SAMs with active terminal guidance seeker which the K-SAAM, KM-SAM, Albatros and VL MICA are. Given that there’s only 4 VLS cells, highly likely a quad pack capable SAM would be choosen. Unless more VLS cells will be added like on Ukranian Ada (12x VL MICA I believe).
My guess is the cheapest missile will be chosen which would be K-SAAM, unless 40km range is the requirement then its either KM-SAM vs Albatross.
Either way I am glad RMN is moving in the direction of quad pack SAMs on small size ships (which I had been championing even for LCS) to maximize the defensive capability which RMN currently lacking.
@ Lugman
I don’t think there is a naval version of the KM-SAM.