SHAH ALAM: Generic RWS, Plan B. As you are aware the Army and RMN (as well as the MMEA) are probably/likely on the look out for a remote weapon station (RWS) for their future vehicles or ships. That said the need for a new RWS is likely higher for the Army as it is looking to recapitalise its armoured vehicles as well as its fire support vehicles.
The RMN and MMEA already operate the MSI-Defence Sigma and the Aselsan SMASH/STAMP RWS on its vessels and patrol boats. While both of these and the ones used by the Army (Reutech, on the Gempita) are already good enough, buying a common generic RWS – sharing the same components – between the services, could probably save us a lot of money – on maintenance and economic of scale.
A CGI of the US Amry Initial Maneuver Short-Range Air Defense system. The RIWP turret is fitted with Stinger and Hellfire missiles as well as a 30mm gun. The discs on the front and sides are the radar antennas.
An example of a generic RWS is the Moog Defence RIWP which can be use for land and naval solutions. The US Army recently downselected the Leonardo DRS solution for its Initial Maneuver Short-Range Air Defense (IM-SHORAD) effort which uses a RIWP turret as the basis for its offer.
A close up view of the RIWP turret for the US Army IMSHORAD capability.
The Leonardo DRS system, when integrated on the Stryker A1 platform, will provide maneuver Brigade Combat Teams with a full “detect-identify-track-defeat” capability required to defeat UAS, rotary-wing and fixed-wing threats. Leonardo DRS expects to receive the prototype contract in August of this year.
The system, developed by Leonardo DRS’s Land Systems business unit, integrates mature technologies from industry teammates and partners, including Moog’s Reconfigurable Integrated-weapons Platform (RIwP), Raytheon’s Stinger missiles and Rada’s Multi-mission Hemispheric Radar. The IM-SHORAD solution provides both hard and soft kill capabilities to the warfighter while minimizing impacts on the mobility of the Stryker.
More on the Moog Defence Reconfigurable Integrated- Weapons Platform.
The Reconfigurable Integrated-weapons Platform (RIwP) is a revolutionary remote turret, providing the warfighter overmatch capability and increased survivability to exceed current and emerging threats across the full spectrum of conflict. In many configurations RIwP medium caliber precision lethality, for tactical and combat platforms, provides greater firepower than most currently fielded combat systems ensuring advantages over ground and air threats. Current configurations include the option for multiple missiles, direct fire weapons and sight combinations. All direct fire weapons feature reload under armor for increased crew protection.
Although MOOG has already configured 10 RIWP with all sorts of guns and missiles combinations, we can still opt to develop the turrets with the guns and missiles combination of our own (as shown by the one offered by Leonardo, above). The cheapest way is to buy the already configured RIWP turrets on our vehicles or ships, of course.
The RIWP could be integrated on the Condor replacement vehicle or the upgraded Condor, the future Infantry and fire support vehicle, when fitted with anti-tank and anti aircraft missile as well as the future replacements of the Adnans and KIFV as well.
The same turrets could also be fitted on newly built Gempita including an air defence variant, if the Army decides to buy more of them of course.
Apart from the Army vehicles, the same turrets and weapons configurations could also be fitted on future vessels, including the MRSS and patrol boats of the RMN and MMEA giving them a stand-off surface and short range anti aircraft capability (if the gun and missile combo is selected). It is certainly better than having just a 30mm RWS and a cheaper option compared to the 57mm or 76mm guns. This would be a lot more accurate than the pray and spray Gatling or GPMGs.
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (37)
When discussing RCWS you need to differentiate lightweight systems with 0.50 machine gun systems or smaller, and something with a 30mm cannon, which is usually as big as a normal 2 man turret.
I think here is a more appropriate to discuss on 155mm howitzers and armoured vehicles.
My take:
155mm Howitzers
To be added but not to replace the 105mm. Additional used G5 from Qatar and new spare barrels bought from South Africa/China. 2 regiments, 1 semenanjung and another in east malaysia. The 1 regiment of M109A5+ to support the armoured brigade. all current 105mm regiments to be recapitalised with new 105mm howitzers. Why keep 105mm howitzers? IMO because 155mm power is too big in low intensity conflicts and urban warfare such as Marawi.
1 RAD para melaka LG-1 105mm
2 RAD mechanized johor Hawkeye 105mm J-LTV (supports 7th brigade)
3 RAD perak LG-1 105mm
4 RAD sarawak LG-1 105mm
5 RAD kelantan LG-1 105mm
6 RAD sabah LG-1 105mm
7 RAD mechanized pahang Hawkeye 105mm J-LTV (supports 4th brigade)
21 RAD negeri sembilan G5 155mm
22 RAD mechanized negeri sembilan M109A5+ 155mm (supports 1st brigade)
23 RAD sabah G5 155mm
51 RAD johor ASTROS MLRS
52 RAD kedah ASTROS MLRS
61 RAD johor ARTHUR artillery locating radar
Armour, tracked or wheeled?
Both have its place. Tracked can navigate rough terrains and nimble in build up areas. Wheeled can self deploy quickly to far away places.
My ideal orbat
1st Armour Brigade (Rasah Camp, Seremban, N. Sembilan)
11th Royal Armour Corps (Syed Sirajuddin Camp, Gemas, Negeri Sembilan) 48 PT-91M 30 MIFV
12th Royal Armour Corps (Sunggala Camp, Port Dickson) 48 PT-91M 30 MIFV
14th Royal Malay Regiment (Rasah Camp, Seremban, Negeri Sembilan) 100 Adnan
4th Mechanised Brigade (Batu 10 Camp, Kuantan, Pahang)
19th Royal Malay Regiment (Mech) (Gubir Camp, Sungai Petani, Kedah) 80 AV8 20 AM4
7th Royal Ranger Regiment (Mech) (Batu 5 Camp, Mentakab, Pahang) 80 AV8 20 AM4
12th Royal Malay Regiment (Mech) (Daralockwood Camp, Kuantan,
Pahang) 80 AV8 20 AM4
505th Territorial Army Regiment (Mech) (Teluk Sisik Camp, Kuantan,
Pahang)
1st Royal Armour Corps (Batu 10 Camp, Kuantan, Pahang) 46 AV8 46 J-LTV
7th Infantry Brigade (Mahkota Camp, Kluang, Johor)
5th Royal Malay Regiment (Batu Tiga Camp, Kluang, Johor) 70 AM4 30 J-LTV
10th Royal Malay Regiment (Majidee Camp, Johor Bharu, Johor) 70 AM4 30 J-LTV
6th Royal Ranger Regiment (Majidee Camp, Johor Bharu, Johor) 70 AM4 30 J-LTV
501st Territorial Army Regiment (Tebrau Camp, Johor Bharu, Johor)
AM4 is just a generic label for a MRAP that could replace the condor and priced at USD1 million or less each (cheaper than the proposed condor refurbishment). J-LTV is off the shelf US to cost USD0.4 million each. Adnans to be replaced with latest tracked IFV past 2030.
1 Mechanized Gempita
48+6 IFV25
8 IFV30
4 LCT30
6 Command
6 VINTAQS
2 ARV
6 AM4 ambulance
4 AM4 maintenance
4 AM4 logistic
6 AM4 APC
1 CAVALRY RGT (Kor Armor Diraja)
24 IFV30
12 LCT30
4 Command
2 Ambulances
2 ARV
2 Maintenance
46 J-LTV (12 HWC, 12 ATGM, 6 VINTAQS, 12 GP, 4 ambulance)
1 Mechanized (7th brigade)
54 AM4 APC
6 AM4 command
2 AM4 ambulance
4 AM4 maintenance
4 AM4 logistic
30 J-LTV (12 HWC, 6 ATGM, 8 GP, 4 ambulance)
The big IF, if those in charge of procurement wants to settle for the same brand of RIWP across the services.
I like the RIWS Picture at the Bottem, if RMN choose it. Might be a Save Cost for Us. As same for LMS and NGPV.
However for the Army, If The RIWS Include 40mm+Javelin+Starstreak Missile for AV8 or ACV-300 Might be a Good Chance to Balance the Army's Assets.
PS: This is My Openion for RWS
Any type of RCWS will do.
As long as our boys are safe and sound. They'll be glad to hear that they wont have to stick their entire upper body up a hole which screams SHOOT ME,
Plus adding on a sighting system on our existing 4x4 vics would make them much better at target aquisition. Hell anything would be be better than relying on MRK1 EYEBALLS.
Definetely think, this is a good decision if it happens.
P. S Marhalim would be cool seeing a post higlighting the lack of body armor /ballistic protection given to our troops
Just sayin plate carriers are the way to go these days, saved a ton of lives in the middle east why not here in malaysia
.. - ''IMO because 155mm power is too big in low intensity conflicts and urban warfare such as Marawi.''
Depends on the type of '' low intensity conflicts''. If the enemy is dug in a thick bunker or in an urban area under tonnes of concrete; then a 155mm would be useful. Granted, even an air dropped thousand pounder can have difficulty penetrating thick concrete but it's useful that 155mm rounds have better penetrating ability compared to a 105mm one. Also, if there was a need to avoid ''collateral damage'' and the target is under direct observation; a ''smart'' 155mm round can be used.
... - ''Wheeled can self deploy quickly to far away places.''
A big advantage is that wheeled platforms tend to be less maintenance intensive; cheaper to operate. Over long distances they're also much more comfortable to be in.
Whatever happens to deftech DETRAC RWS?
Reply
No idea, I dont keep track of products marketed by defence companies unless it moved on to be under serious consideration
@ azlan
" Also, if there was a need to avoid ”collateral damage” and the target is under direct observation; a ”smart” 155mm round can be used. "
1. How much does a "smart" 155mm round cost compared to a basic 105mm shell?
2. How big is the logistic trail of a 155mm gun?
3. Can 155mm really replace 105mm guns in malaysia's context? IMO both have its place in the context of malaysian doctrine, yes we do need a few more 155mm guns, but not to replace the 105mm, but to have 155mm units on both east and west malaysia.
.. – ”IMO because 155mm power is too big in low intensity conflicts and urban warfare such as Marawi.”
If one desires an indirect fire weapon that is "light," cheap and mobile then 120mm mortars would suffice.
Since the ability to penetrate urban structures is a concern, it would be good to have 155mm guns widely available to provide support beyond a unit's organic mortars. It would be preferable to relying on 105mm in some units and finding that it isn't penetrating enough- or have enough range.
It's probably for this reasoning that several armies are comfortable with a 155/120mm combination and don't find it necessary to maintain 105mm guns aside from air mobile artillery.
.. - ''How much does a “smart” 155mm round cost compared to a basic 105mm shell?''
I was just explaining how it really depends on the type of ''LIC'' .... What does cost have in relevance to the discussion? Also, ''smart'' rounds will be used very sparingly, on selected targets - not as if they'll be fired as if they're going out of fashion and not all targets can be hit by a ''smart'' round ........
Getting back - Marawi was a ''LIC'' but was no way comparable to Lahad Dato; as such whether a 105mm or 155mm is more suitable really depends on the type of ''LIC'' conflict being waged .. A lesson learnt from Marawi is the need actually not for arty but direct fire weapons to knock out structures. The same lesson was learnt in various other urban engagements.
.... - ''How big is the logistic trail of a 155mm gun?''
I'm aware of that [mentioned previously] but we are talking about arty in relation to a ''LIC'' here. Unless I was mistaken the ''topic'' was the merits of a 105mmm VS 155mm in a ''LIC'' scenario. If indeed an ''LIC'' is scenario is faced; a larger logistical footprint would be less of an issue given the army isn't being pressured in other areas like it would be in a full scale state on state conflict ....
... - ''yes we do need a few more 155mm guns, but not to replace the 105mm,''
This is open to debate. Pros and cons involved. There is a profound reason why some have binned their 105mms and some haven't......
... - ''but to have 155mm units on both east and west malaysia.''
Given that we've already ordered more guns; I'd rather focus other other areas like C2, search and target acquisition capabilities, organisation, etc. We need those areas sorted out to reach the next stage of development. Yes everyone liked the idea of more heavy metal but the clear hard fact is that until we sort out other areas; it really doesn't matter what we buy, how many we buy, where we base them or how many guns we have in a battery or a regiment; as we'll be outclassed if faced with a state actor which has better C2 and search and target acquisition capabilities .......
Dodo - ''Marhalim would be cool seeing a post higlighting the lack of body armor /ballistic protection given to our troops''
There's really not much to write. Many units have body armour but not enough to equip the whole unit. Similarly, troops seen on parade may have body armour but doesn't mean there are enough to equip their units [like optics and NVGs] - it would be great if troops seen on parades are indicative of the army as a whole but alas they're aren't.
Yes we realise the need and importance of body armour but there simply isn't the will at the moment to make it a priority. There are other areas that the powers above feel need addressing first. Troops along the Thai border have been seen with body armour but the bulk of our combat units [years after Lahad Dato] still don't.