2010 Budget

KUALA LUMPUR: AS usual its the defence and security sector got the stick whenever the economy goes bad. Based on my cursory reading of the Economic Report its the only Main sector of the government that had its budget reduced. Oh, well…

Management Budget for 2010, which pays for maintainaince and spares; operations and emoluments.

RM16.233 billion (last year was RM18.232 billion). From the amount, defence got RM9.101 billion (2009: RM10.651 B) while Internal Security got RM7.132 billion (2009: RM7.851)

Development Budget 2010. Cash for the good followers!

RM3.728 billion (2009: RM4.547B). Defence got RM2.581 billion (2009: RMRM3.028) and Internal Security got RM1.146 B (2009: RM1.519). However as outlined in the speech below, the allocation for MINDEF gets smaller. Its getting only RM1.9 billion, PDRM got RM1 billion while the MMEA got RM622 million.

This is what Dear PM said in his speech about security.
RMM3.7 Billion To Enhance Security
KUALA LUMPUR, Oct 23 (Bernama) — A total of RM3.7 billion will be provided to increase the efficiency of the security force, including providing modern and sophisticated equipment.

Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said RM1 billion would be provided to further improve the services of the police next year to achieve the government’s objective of reducing crime, which is one of the National Key Results Area.

“The government targets to reduce the crime index by 5 per cent, including reducing street crimes, such as snatch thefts and robberies by 20 per cent by the end of 2010,” he said when tabling the 2010 Budget in parliament Friday.

He said that among the measures taken was to provide mobile police stations in 50 crime hot spots.

The government would also train and enhance the efficiency of 3,000 members of the Rela voluntary corps and Civil Defence Department to conduct joint patrol with the police.

Najib said the security of the nation’s borders would be given serious attention by providing RM1.9 billion to the armed forces for equipment as well as to build and upgrade sentry posts.

In addition, he said, RM600 million would be allocated to the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency to ensure that the national waters were free from smuggling activities, encroachment and pirate threats.

— BERNAMA

–Malaysian Defence

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About Marhalim Abas 1187 Articles
Shah Alam

38 Comments

  1. No problem with the budget. Really benefit-kan rakyat. With such amount of money for the armed forces so there’ll be no major arms procurement for next year. Only yang small-small punye senjatalah….(let see what is the defense allocation in the real 10th Malaysian Plan pula nanti…)

  2. Dear PM!!! Apa sudah jadi?

    Every year we hear the same thing, ”provided to increase the efficiency of the security force, including providing modern and sophisticated equipment.”How long more will the government continue to gamble with our national security and neglect the men and women in uniform.

    We keep hearing about national development and the economy. The building of roads, bridges, etc. All in the name of development and the betterment of the ‘rakyat’. But where is the hard cash needed to ensure the MAF has the means to defend our sovereignty? To protect 7,282km of coastline, protect the EEZ, ensure the Sraits of Melaka is secure, safeguard our claims in the Spratlys and ensure the sea access to East Malaysia remains secure, the RMAF has a fleet of just 4 short range MPAs.

  3. According to the MAF commander interview, even with the reduced there gonna be some major procurement deals at LIMA 2009. Checkout TEMPUR for October 2009. The Cougar and KS-1A M-SAM most probably gonna be part of it….and there still the matter with Inderapura replacement….

    Marhalim: The two deals are not confirmed yet. The only deal confirmed is the Kasturi SLEP and probably the submarine maintainance deal. Inderapura replacement will surely not be signed at this Lima, probably next Lima…..Oh yes they most probably signed the deal with SME for the local manufacture of the M4….I must add in the two interviews I had accessed to, in both the PAT said they still want the Cougars and they hope it will be finalised, no time frame was mentioned however.

  4. The RM1.9 billion is probably mostly to pay the 2 new launch NGPV, the maintenance contract for the subs, SLEP for kasturi and maybe urgent requirement for 24-36 new APCs for lebanon used.

    The MMEA 622 million would probably cover the 3 new AW139 and the 2 Amphibious plane plus may be new firearm.

    But polis and MMEA not really worryla. They are under KDN so less impact i foresee.

    In this situation as a arm chair general (:-)), I would probably settle for a smaller combatant unit but well equipped and well financed. I would rather leave the patrolling, monitoring and enforcement to the MMEA and police. While i would assign the military to what it should do best, combat and win conflict.

    Marhalim: Since Malaysia is at peace, every one is an arm chair general………..And if you are in the construction industry you gotta love getting a contract to build border guard posts, the amount of profit one can make for “transport charges” alone can get the recipient, a young, not-so-talented singer/actress as a second wife, with a Cayenne to boot!

  5. I doubt the KS-1A M-SAM will ever be ordered. Its just something that has been forced onto the MAF, who in turn will try their best to wiggle their way out off. All this talk about medium range SAMs when there’s still no sight of the Starburst replacement. Just as importantly GAPU needs early warning systems in addition to the 2 TRS-3Ds and 3 Giraffes, for early warning and cueing of their MANPADS. What I like about devices like ADADs is they can be issued down to troop level rather than the radar who are further up the line and being passive won’t be a target for anti-radiation missiles.

  6. According to the defense minister, the mod will find others way like trading something for arms or getting fund from private sector or others way that are mutual to both side. I do think that this is the same way to procure something new as the Sukhoi deal.

    Marhalim: I believe what he is saying is that they will go more funds through other means such as the proposal to use money from LTAT to fund procurement

  7. maybe we see new rotary bird in our air force inventory next year.

    Marhalim: If we go for 12 Cougars, it will suck up the whole Rm1.9 billion budget…..

  8. Well done PM. Some groups threatened to invade our country just early this month and the govt responded bravely by cutting the mod’s budget. Little wonder no one is afraid to burn our flag these days. One might argue the threat is nothing more than hot air but who really knows how deep is the influence of this group in their country’s military. Why take the chance?
    What if some pissed off nationalist in their navy decided to steal a boat with missiles on board and lob one over Lumut? Far fetched? Sorry but i’m a worst-kinda-scenario guy. But then again this is our beloved country. We build bridges, repair the roads, put more cops on the streets, only after someone dies.

    To me dedicated MPAs is a very crucial assets which we should’ve procure long time ago. Perhaps the RMAF should take our pampered politicians onboard the Beechcraft for a ride and ask them how to detect hostile submarines, intrusion in the EEZ, keeping the straits secure or spotting bendera’s invading force using just the binoculars. That and the aircraft’s own limited range. I guess they wont know..until they endure.

    Even Indonesia, neighbouring country which we perceived as backwards have decent MPA despite budget constraints because they realise just how important it is.

  9. If this is a re-post, apologies Marhalim. Having problems with my PC. For interesting footage of an MMEA Dauphin and special assault team, look at episodes 3 [1] and 3 [2] of ”Ross Kemp – In Search For Pirates” on Youtube. He visits Malaysia in these episodes and goes on an MMEA Dauhpin and a anti-piracy drill.

    Wan,the TNI-AL has a very large fleet of ircraft, but few are really configured for dedicated MPA work except the 707s fitted with a Motorola SLAR radar and the few CN-235s with AMASCOS. The bulk are Nomads, which incidentally were witdrawn from Australian service due to safety reasons. And if you look closely, despite their very large coastline and archipelago, they have almost the same number of surface vessels as the RMN. Only the bulk of it is much older and less capable.

    We keep hearing about the rapid expansion of the PDRM. Have training standards dropped due to the influx of recruits? I believe it has and its very obvious when observing the very young newly inducted constables in their patrol cars.

    Marhalim: and recent shootings showed that they had slipped in gun training also…

  10. Marhalim,

    Cross reference with MoD’s annual report in past years will show you that the allocation for MMEA will come directly from the PM’s Department budget, and not from the Mindef. Please read the annual report from MoD or the annual accounting report (if u can get hold of it) and cross-check it with the amount given during the budget. This has been the case since the establishment of MMEA.

    Mindef will get RM 2.581 bil next year for its Development Expenditure.

    Marhalim: I know, but the MMEA allocation was taken from Najib speech. I trying to get the Defence Minister to say why only RM1.9 billion is allocated for arms purchase from the RM2.581 billion they got from the 2010 budget. Perhaps the rest are meant for infrastructure projects, but that doesnt jive with Najib speech who said that among the things that will be purchased with the RM1.9 billion will be the construction and upgrading of border posts….

  11. The arm chair general here..:-)

    Personally its time to get rid of the 30++ old 8 FAC (M) and the 4-6 FAC (G) and a sizeable no of Kris patrol boat. Just leave the RMN with the 2 FFG, 2 FF, 4 COrvettes, 6 OPV and 2 subs. IF there is money, up gun the OPV with ASM,AAM and torpedo. Even with this, maintenance budget will still be high.

    Let KDN pay for the MMEA new patrol boat requirement. Somethings from the Korean would be sufficient. Again, this may not work due to the middleman mafia

    Marhalim: You keft out the MCMVs and Mahawangsa and Inderasakti. If they buy the Nakhoda Ragams your scheme may work…

  12. Sigh…What about AEWCs and Jebat Batch II and dedicated MPAs..

    Marhalim: Thats have to wait for RMK10 funds……

  13. Maybe MMEA can get a dozen or so of the 2nd hand korean Kilurki / Chamsuri / Sea Dolphin (PKM : Patrol Killer Medium). Most built in the middle 1980’s (around 80 ships built) and being replaced by the gomdoksuri PKX. Remove most of the guns, and paint it white, and MMEA will get instant patrol ships.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamsuri_class_patrol_vessel

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rok/pkm.htm#

    http://blog.naver.com/ohcw2002dyd?Redirect=Log&logNo=60029707382

    Marhalim: I just saw the specs, the ships are fitted with MTU engines. Somebody will be extremely happy with your proposal, perhaps they had even sent in a proposal for the ships before Najib took over…..

  14. Its one thing replacing the 4 Handalan class, 4 Perdana class and 6 Jerong FACS, but are where are the replacements? How do we fill the capabilty gap following the retirement of the FAC fleet? Even years ago, when the RMN had more Vospers and the 2 Marikh class OPVs, the Mahamiru’s still had to be used for routine patrol work due to a shortage of assets.

    As for the Indera Sakti and Mahawangsa, ships like these were intended to be in service for 25-30 years minimum. It all depends on how much is allocated for overhauls in dry docks and preventive mantainance. Just because a hull is over 20 years old does not automatically mean its due for replacement.

    Marhalim: You are right about the two transport ships being able to serve on. But without a hangar for a helicopter, both are severely limited in its capabilities and will continue to do so even with upgrades. I believe at the moment, they have to soldier until a contract for their replacements are signed. And the people connected with MTU will be crying if the ships are not replaced with ones fitted with the same engines. Hint!!

  15. You made a horrendous suggestion when LTAT should fund the defence procurement. the LTAT is meant to serve the servicemen welfare. Say,you dont surrogate your KWSP money with a new couch or a LCD TV and say ” hey let’s have these items put in our balai raya so the neighbourhood can share”. When these assets become obselete against time, then what? there you go! I wonder how’s your cry gonna sounds like on the aftermath.You talk bout integrity in governing body, but yaself unfit in idea. I read your previous post on the MAF assault rifle replacement. I dont know whether or not you made such flawed analysis.But I’m not surprise with justification over that issue clearly suits your background as them tabloid journos, who suddenly jumped to become an armchair general out of nowhere. You are not a man of science.So now tell me which and when the USAF had its future rifle? the HK416? magpul masada? XM8? or SCAR mk 16? The marine cor still uses the m16 so whats the hype for? I believe such replacement (with your claim happens in 2 years time) would only involve selected divisions of elite and SOF. i.e. ranger, force recon. But to thoroughly replace the whole armed force with the new gear, Im afraid 20 years is not enough. Cause they need a real war or conflicts too. When it comes to MAF, there are more other thoughts in 20 years to focus in. Servicemen’s welfare must first comes into mind. You should allow new facillity,swimming pool,games courts,and modern accommodations. Then “barula” comes the assets. This is what the wests do. And for godsake can you please remove the LTAT funding poll out of ya homepage? Cause wise men ain’t buy it. Only those an absolute loon or pedo would do!

    Marhalim:Bro, if you really read my postings, you will know that the proposal for the LTAT funding came from the DEFENCE MIINISTER Datuk Seri Ahmad Zahid Hamidi, not me!

    Yes, I do believe they make a bad decision when it comes to the M4. Because its not just about the weapon itself. Its more about what had happened within the last 20 years. We spent at least RM500 to RM700 million ringgit on the Steyr project and looked what happened to it, people got laid off, the Steyr support package non-existent, god forbid, what happened if something does crop up?. And the people behind the Steyr, rich as they are, got the same sweetener when the M4 deal was signed.

    Taking care of the servicemen comes hand-in-hand with providing them with the best tool possible to defend country. No amount of barracks, swimming pools, and badminton courts will helped our soldiers if they are left to defend our nation with out-dated, over-budget and rusting arms which is exactly the scenario we are facing.
    NEXT time read and exhale first……….

  16. In my opinion, the armed forces can earn their own money instead of keep on waiting for gov. Let say the navy can provide shipping service, which i think can advantage than other company since they got navy ships to escort, free from pirates… even its not much, still can do something ..
    i think the cougar really urgent.. since nuri really old ady..
    just dunno why gov keep on reducing on defence, then add to those like FI project… do they think defence is secondary in our country ? …

  17. Dear Azlan,

    Agreed with you that aking out the FACs without replacements would meant difficulty to RMN to fullfill its role. But with ever high cost and bigger defence cuts, are there any other choice?

  18. “We are assessing whether to get the new jets from the United States, France, Sweden or Britain. The purchase will also depend on the country’s economic recovery,” said the defense minister in an interview with the sun reporter.

    In the interview also stated that, the cost of maintenance for the migs is too high nealy 270 million annually. The reasons of why the govt has chosen the migs in early 90’s is because that is the most capable fighter they can buy at that time.

    So from that point we can conclude that the successor of the MIG-29s fleet will be from one of the country stated above. Personally, I think the US-made Super Hornet will be the air force favorite-lah…

  19. kamal, with regards to the FAC fleet, I can’t answer the qustion because I have no idea what their condition is. They were constructed in the late 70s, not 60s, so on paper they are still able to be operated for a few more years.
    I do believe however, that with regards to proper maintanance, the RMN is way ahead of the army and RMAF [notwistanding the Inderapura disaster!] To patrol our waters against pirates and Philipine bandits, I’d rather have a 32 year old Jerong class FAC than nothing at all.

    Nicholas, what you’re proposing is exactly what the Argentine navy did in the 90’s to meet its costs. Since Merdeka, the TNI has also operated numerous businesses, from grocery shops to logging in Kalimantan, to offset the lack of funding from Jakarta. Even today it is very common for senior officers to visit army camps at the end of every month to literally hand out bundles of cash to meet its expenses. The down side to this is that it creates a system of patronage within the service. Traditionaly, militaries that get involve with side businesses tend to be unprofessional and very active politicly.

  20. Marhalim, do you have any idea how many units operate the Eryx, how many were bought in the 90’s and whether there we any follow on orders? Thank you.

    Marhalim: As far as I know only the Paras operate the Eryx. Numbers? Based on my records, we bought 200 in 1993 to 1997 and another 74 in 2000.

  21. RAFALE-FRANCE
    SUPER HORNET-US
    TYPHOON- UK
    GRIPEN-SWEEDEN

    My Vote for the replacement…. Rafale. But bloody expensive about USD75 to USD100 million per piece. However, the flanker already using some French sub-system so might be synergistic value there… In the end, my personal forecast for the next 10 years would see RMAF operates only between 24 to 30 MRCA,8-14 Advance jet Trainer, around 20 basic air trainer, 4-8 medium/heavy (above 20tonne lift) fixed wing transporter, 8-12 medium (6-10 tonne lift)fixed wing transporter, 6-12 Heli for CSAR/troop transport, 4-6 Medium class MPA and maybe 2 AEWACS

    Marhalim: Kamal, I have to report that a high ranking source told me that the AA-12 have not been delivered yet contrary to my earlier comments. I will check with others to confirm this….

  22. RAFALE-FRANCE
    SUPER HORNET-US
    TYPHOON- UK
    GRIPEN-SWEEDEN

    Any one example of the above types will cost as much as or more than a single SU-30MKM. So the question is do we have the money in RMK10 to get this political buy or do we have to sacrifice the helo, MPA and AWACS requirements yet again?

    I’m prefering the additional 6 MKM route (i know even TUDM people dont like it) plus 2nd hand topups of additional legacy hornets, hawks and MB339’s; and the bulk of the RMK10 funding for TUDM going to the Helo, MPA and AWACS buy. I really think that we dont need yet another type of fighter in the near future.

  23. Rafale? French jets are expensive but french missiles are even more expensive…

    I think the RMAF will save for the AEW project. Our next RMAF acquisition will be the AEW maybe in 2012, Fighters will have to wait until 2017-18 (Maybe just in time to replace the by then tired hornets)

  24. The only thing common between Rafale and the MKMs are the Damocles pod and LCDs. Even the Sigma INS is different. The French haven’t bothered to seriously promote Rafale because they know it’s beyond our price range. Even if we could afford it, why go for an unproven airframe when the Super Hornet is fully combat proven, with all integration already done and paid for by Uncle Sam.

  25. I would to ask whether would it be feasible for us to purchase military equipments from China such as their jet fighters & AEW?

    Marhalim: Personally, I would say no at the moment. Furthermore if we need to buy from China we need to buy arms that are being used by them to ensure long term serviceability and spares availability…

  26. Azlan, agreed. The Super Hornets does seems to be a better choice come to think of it again. already about 700++ in US inventory, more than Rafale and Gripen combined (maybe even with Typhoon). But again based on the australian orders of approximates AUD4.5 billion for 24 SH, still blody expensive for 4++ generation fighters is not it?

  27. Marhalim, with regards to RVV AE, i thought the same thing also.But the news i got (not confirmedla), that RMAF ordered the extended range R27 -IR and SARH AAM (more than 100km range). I was informed that the tactics would be a more of a long range BVR play, with sukhoi acting as a mini aewacs of sorts. Two missiles will be fired (upon confirmation of hostile aircraft by ground radar and relay to sukhoi to track), one SARH and one IR, in order to confused the electronic defence systems of the hostile air craft. The SARH would acting as the decoy while the long range IR would be the one tasked to hit the target. If the hostile aircraft manages to escape both, than the sukhoi would direct other aircraft to confront it using AA 11, which has a theoretical range of excess 20km, wallahu alam

  28. IMHO..be it SH..Gripen..Rafale or Typhoon, all are well capable and is a good buy given their performance and upgrading option..Each have its own distinctive characteristic and have their own advocators within the RMAF pilot themselves. The deciding factor will be the one with the best package and support plus other goodies..i.e ToT, upgrade program, trade-in option..etc…and price of course..whatever the decision will be..hopefully it’s gonna be a sincere and transparent deal for the benefit of the nation as a whole..but again IMHO..with regard to the SH..though it’s a good aircraft we’re still the step son with respect to the other son down south. Their integration might not fit with our requirement bearing in mind we’re the only nation operating both US and Russian..and no matter whatever configuration and integration done..we’re still gonna get what they see fit and would want to give. Heck, the US is the only country actively policing around the world, no wonder their assets are combat proven..given chances..the others would fare similar as well..check RED FLAG..

    Marhalim: Based on recent statements from Padang Tembak, I believe by the time, we are ready to buy a new fighter plane, we might as well buy the F-35. Yes its US$100 million per piece, but if we spread the buy for five years, we might get a dozen or so JSFs….

  29. Maya, with regards to us being the ‘step-son’ compared to the ‘other son down south’, I highly disagree. The US is more than willing to sell a lot of stuff to us, whether we want to buy is another matter. Even if ‘we’re still going to get what they see fit’, so what? Whatever is approved for sale to us more than suits our operational requirements. Not getting the source codes for the Super Hornets radar or not getting the full software suit for its ECM pod, does not comprise our security or operational needs.

    The RSAF currently has an F-16 and F-15 training detachment in the US commanded by a USAF officer. Imagine the amount of knowledge and operational experience that will be shared. We cant do the same with our MKMs because the Russian AF does not operate the MKM! Our pilots only received conversion training from Suhkoi test pilots. As a result we have to develop a training syllabus and combat doctrine on our own! With a little help from the IAF with regards to developing a training syllabus.

    Marhalim: And I might add, the Singaporeans sent a detachment to India to train with the IAF every year now!

  30. Their training detachments in the US and France also take part in NATO exercises. Every they also conduct live fire combined arms exercises in Australia. As I pointed out before, having bought the Vastergotland, the RSN has gained access to years of Swedish navy operational experience. Unfortunately, there’s not much in underwater littoral warfare the French navy can impart on the RMN as it is a deep water navy. So like the RMAF, the RMN is going to have to develop its own doctrine in operating Scorpene in local waters.

    Marhalim: Based what happened during the arrival of the KD Tunku, I believe they got the right guys for the job, lets hope the 140 or so submariners will stay in service for the next 10 years…..

  31. “Even if ‘we’re still going to get what they see fit’, so what?”..well..i don’t know bout u but i surely dont want somebody else to set the standard for me..it’s like buying ferarri but instead was given a pimped up wira b’cos tht’s what the seller sees fit to u..the operational requirement of a modern warfare is highly dynamic and changing..and things like getting our own AMRAAM only in 2005 is kinda late in the game. The source code is the vital key for the integration process and for us to be able to program our own system..Because of not getting the ECM software we still need to go back to them to program our own EW database and updates, so i can’t see how matters like these does not compromise our security and operational needs.

    Our men in uniform are actively involved in training with other nations even with the US as well, so i don’t think the gaining of knowledge and experience is such an issue. Even if given the chance to join them in their policing operations around the globe i don’t think it goes in line with our own standing and policy in most of the ops. As for developing our own combat doctrine and syllabus..isn’t tht a good thing and what we’re suppose to be doing?I mean developing our own rather than following others or let others dictate for us..anyhow again…as said earlier in my post above..these are all IMHO..or wat ever is it in 2 cents worth..cheers.

    Marhalim: Even with the source codes, I am doubtful we have the tech-savviness to use them for our purposed, that its not to say it is not important. Our training with the US is more towards being nice to each other, they dont even trust us enough to use live ammunition…

  32. Yes Marhalim, lets hope the submariners stay in the RMN for some time. The first RMN personnel who received submarine training from DCN were actually sent in the late 80’s. Dont know if you remember but the Daphne class Physche was in Malaysia for almost a month in 1989, trying to persuade us to buy it.

    In 1998, 5 officers were sent to Turkey for a 34 month submarine course. For the final phase of their training, they served on a Type 209 on a routine patrol in the Black Sea. The Turks then were hoping to sell us licensed built Type 209s. Anyway, I’m just glad we didn’t buy HMS Oberon and HMS Walrus, which was offered in the 1988 arms MOU with the UK. Though I was hoping HDW would get the contract, at least we ended up with the Scorpene and not the Zwaardis and Tigerhaai as RDM and Amin Shah would have preferred.

    Marhalim: The odd thing about the earlier subs training is that I have never seen any dolphins until the training at toulon started.

  33. In the 90’s, some officers also received their dolphins from the RAN. Since it took so long for submarines to be ordered, most of these men have probably left.

  34. Today the KD Tun Abdul Razak has finally commissioned and by March next year it will be ready to sail home. By the way, we are now topping up our ASW capability with the SLEP for the kasturi and now the main focus is ADDITIONAL weapon suite for the current NGPVs. The NGPVs is lightly armed with naval gun and MANPADS for air defence.
    According to a report, the Indian-Russian made BrahMos missile which has been offered to Malaysia is perfectly suitable to be fitted in the ship with the BrahMos Vertical Launch-system for the ship. So what’s the navy has to say about this?
    Anyway, let see all our doubt answered in this upcoming LIMA 2009.

    Marhalim: As for the Brahmos, if we ever buy it, I believed the land-based and air launch versions iare much better suited for our needs.

  35. Yeah, they have already said that the main market of the Brahmos missiles in Asean is for the air-launched version. The system has been tested and fitted for Su-30MKI in India and should probably be able to be fitted on other Sukhois in ASEAN such as Su-30MKM (Malaysia), Su-27(Indonesia) and Su-30MK (Indonesia and Vietnam).

  36. Oh yeah, for the new MRCA requirement i’m putting my money on the Super Hornet(USA)…..but then again the US has been presenting us with not so good terms(trade the 8 hornets for it)….but, then again, another 18 Su-30MKM sound nice…..

  37. I read in latest edition of Tempur that govt purchased 28 155mm Denel G5 Howitzers in 2001, 22 barrels in 2002 and final 6 in 2003. Is this true because i thought we have only 28 pieces. Do we really have that many? Plus the 12 older FH means that we have 68 155mm?

    Marhalim: My records show 22 G5 and 9 FH70…..

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