Turkey Trying to Sell Pars (AV8) to Indonesia

SHAH ALAM: I guess that our dreams of exporting the AV8 to regional countries are only pipe dreams (see story below). I wonder if the Turkish will announced the cost of the deal if it is finalised (yes, I know there have been reports of Indonesia purchasing 8X8s from South Korea). One has to wonder also our proposal to sell license made M4s to Indonesia and Thailand as espoused by the Defence Minister recently. Here. Here

From Defense News

The land warfare sector accounts for Turkey’s largest defense export deal: a $600 million sale of 257 Pars eight-wheel-drive armored personnel carriers and combat vehicles from FNSS to Malaysia, signed in February. The vehicles will be co-produced with Malaysian partners.

FNSS is discussing another sale of the Pars to Indonesia. The company also is near a deal with the arms company Al Jaber in the United Arab Emirates, FNSS officials said. FNSS and Al Jaber are expected to jointly build the Pars vehicles in the emirates.

Building on the success of the Pars eight-wheel, FNSS has developed a six-wheeled version that it hopes to export. FNSS displayed the six-wheel Pars at IDEF.

–Malaysian Defence

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Shah Alam


  1. Thats great. Now the licensor has started to compete with the licensee even before one 8×8 is even produced in Malaysia.They wants to grab the largest share they can grab.But who can blame the Turks for doing so? When the going is good might as well grab as much as possible so that the overall cost of their own 8×8 can be parred to the cheapest. The M4 carbine? Singapore and Indonesia both have their own rifle production.No need for them to join venture or manufacture for us to compete with their own rifles. The Indonesian rifles-an own version of the FN 5.56 rifles has many varieties and they have no need for the M4. As for the Thais, why must they buy from us or goes into joint venture with us?.What advantage will the Indonesians and Thais gain ? Nothing

  2. The Defence Minister’s statement that Thailand and the Indonesia could buy our M-4s shows how far divorced is he from reality. Why on earth would anyone wish to buy M-4s or AV8s from us when they can buy the real thing direct from the original manufacturer? All this talk about exports is also mainly intended to convince the public that there can be some benefits from these deals.

  3. Another brilliant idea from our honourable Mr Defence Minister. That is what you get when you put some politician in charge at Mindef.

    The problem with him is that he wants to be seen as the guy who bridge the gap between the ASEAN countries, the guy who foster greater relationship, the guy who made Malaysia and indon walking together holding hands. Perhaps he wants to be seen as the asean version of EU Jean Monnet. If that is what he want, fine i dont care but he has to wait until there is someone who is less hawkish taking over the presidency in indonesia. Someone who is more rational and is not bloated with misplaced national pride.

    Our defence minister is so far detached from reality. Have it ever occur to him what the people in those 2 countries think of his proposal? I hope he wont be in charge for too long. When does his term expire?

  4. I am not in favour of us exporting a whole system. We should have tried to be part of the supply chain for the PARS, even it is just the rubber parts to begin with. Could have asked for more parts if we are competitive enough, for example climate control for tropical countries for the AV8 since we have expertise in air-conditioning. Be the best but not the biggest. The same thing with M4.

    The export option is just sandiwara

  5. thailand => tavor
    singapore => sar 21
    indonesia => ss-2

    does he propose that these countries dump their replacement programmes and buy M4s made in malaysia by SMEO?

  6. additional to that..
    myanmar – EMERK 3
    vietnam – AK
    cambodia – AK, type 56

    pls dont take it serious about our defence minister, he is full of humor … it just a joke. as a politician he also need publicity. i dont think he got any publicity on any national issues

  7. Sure they will. Especially when the SMEO M4 is 2x the price of a Diemaco or Hartford gun. Colt uses vendors in the US with HUGE economies of scale supplying a domestic civilian AR market of nearly half a million black rifles a year. Forgings, small parts etc. as commodity items.

    Here, we are going to have a headache just trying to deal with shit like 1/2×28 tpi threads.

  8. Could only work with nice incentives, if the ASEAN nations agree on some kind of indirect barter trade. For example: If Malaysia buys Anoa vehicles from PT.Pindad, Indonesia buys some M4 rifles from SMEO… Or something like that. No way any ASEAN nation is going to buy hundreds of thousands of M4 Melayu as it’s new standard rifle but maybe SMEO can sell a few hundred rifles this way…

  9. david,

    seriously, I doubt malaysia is willing to import strategic goods from its neighboring countries. and this is the key problem. As for as this talk about defence cooperation is concerned, its a one way street given the noise so far. its not going to fly if there is no intention at all to reciprocate.

  10. So taxpayer susbsidy lah. better just to give them 20% of the cash for a down payment on a new Cayenne Turbo.

    Simon, you are behind timeslah, its Panamera Turbo now. And btw they open a new Rolls Royce showroom in PJ in Section 13….

  11. the whole idea to promote malaysia as a weapon producing country is not viable for a simple reason, we dont buy enough weapon ourselves to justify for the investment. Singapore,Korea, Russia, Italy, France, USA and even Pakistan have a domestic demand that can take up to 50% of the weapon produce, unlike us.

    Its time those in high power realise this and gave up the idea. Might as well just ensure our defense force is well funded first to do the day to day operations and we get value for money for weapon system bought.

  12. Malaysia’s politicians particularly the Ministers mentality are basically “public servants”. They’re trying to act like Enterpreneurs as Malaysia is world’s top 20 trading nations. The minister of defense especially is an all out “public servant”. The JV projects and co-operations are merely for an “extra pocket money”. In return, the whole national defense is in shamble. The national defense policy is made purely on an adhoc basis. “ikut mood” policy. It’s sad to see our beloved country turn this way. Otherwise we could have been the strongest and most well-equipped militarily in the region. Will there be changes? Not with this current bunch of the ruling party.

  13. Actually producing the M4 is a mistake. there is a better rifle-the German M416.As a matter of fact the patent for the M16 has lapsed and we can copy fro free now and many manufacturere can now produce their own versions of the M16 of which the M4 is but a version. Producing the more resilient M416 makes more sense.

  14. YM Lee,
    It’s HK416 lah, ii is an improved variants of the M4 designed by the infamous Heckler & Koch from Germany. They are famous for the MP5, G3, UMP45 and G36. I agreed we should has selected the HK416 as the replacement. M4 is outdated already. Even the SEAL team that killed Osama bin Laden was equipped with HK416s during the operation.

    It is more rugged and reliable than the M4 and has some commonality with the Aks series. HK replaced the direct impingement system used by the Stoner design on the original M16 platform with a short-stroke piston operating system much like the AKs series. PASKAL already operated the rifles but it is more expensive than M4s due to lack of economy of scale…

    Personally, i can’t see the need for the M4s at all. We still have the AUG Steyr and should have use the money instead for locally made body armor, NVGs, and personal radios for infantry…

    We need to replace the Steyr as we no longer have the spare parts…

  15. Replacing basic firearms like the rifles for our foot sloggers is an important decision.The rifles should be well chosen.During the last emergency, we were using the SLR.It was a great weapon,accurate,used a big bullet that can sever the hands or legs off the person being shot(something which the much smaller 5.56 cant do.It has an adjustable gas port which can allow various amounts of gas to push the piston that works the working mechanism of the rifle. But it was long(in the jungle it will ge entangled easily) heavy(try carrying it in the ready position for several hills) and the ammunition is heavy and only 200 rounds can be carried. Then they changed the rifles-to the Italian Beretta which almost fell apart in our climate and a failure.It also had a flaw which jams the rifle easily. Then the HK33 was tried.We choose the 33 round curved magazine .This was a mistake as the spring in the magazine was too strong and the first few bullets literally tried to go in to the chamber at the same time jamming the whole thing until front liners did not want to bring this rifle into combat and used back the well tried SLR. They later shortened the spring and passed the HK to the Wataniah Kerahan Batallion. It was a well balanced rifle, sturdy-the plastic body works will not crack and drop off like the M16A1 body works and no niggly safety pin to keep the firing pin in place.This experience had taught the higher ups a lesson in choice of weapons. But looks like they have still not got the lesson well grilled into them yet by choosing the M4.

    They lost the plot when they agreed to the Steyr (a good weapon) not for the weapon (until now I have yet to hear any soldier, retired or serving, say good things about the gun even from the ones who built them!) but the promise of turning Malaysia into a “small arms hub”.

  16. Ym Lee,

    From what I can gather only 2 units, the 3rd Rangers and an RMR battalion was issued with the AR70 for trials. The 3rd Rangers used it during a deployment to Sarawak in the late 1970’s.
    Do you know of any other units that were issued with it? Interestingly, one former Ranger I spoke to, a PGB recipent, who used the AR70 in combat, had no complains about it.

  17. The UCP is the real deal, imported from the U.S.[and has a better cloth quality than any local made uniform], unlike PASKALs U.S. woodland camo which was tailored locally and has a different cut.

    It may be imported from the US but it may turned to be from China…

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