GGK Sub-Gun Tender Awarded

A Taiwanese commando armed with a SIG MPX sub-machine gun. Wikipedia

SHAH ALAM: GGK sub-machine gun tender which was published last September has been awarded to Flumen Technologies Sdn Bhd, a company which is part of Flumen Holdings. The company is operating out of Setiawangsa in Kuala Lumpur.

A check with the Eperolehan website today showed that Flumen Technologies was awarded the Letter of Award (contract) for PEROLEHAN MEMBEKAL DAN MENGHANTAR SUB MACHINE GUN 9 MM (COMPLETE SYSTEM) – PERALATAN VITAL GGK of RM4.8 million. As usual there was no date for the issuance of the LOA so we have no idea when it was actually awarded to the company.

A GGK trooper with his well worn MP-5 submachine gun. BTDM picture taken on 4 Nov 2020 during the PTD visit to Kem Iskandar

As Malaysian Defence posted previously the tender called for the purchase of 155 9mm sub-machine guns complete with the accessories from an optical sight to a laser aiming module. The tender for the GGK vital equipment was tendered three times before they finally got a contract.
MPS
A Paskal with an HK MP-5 submachine gun.

Although Eperolehan website did not state the type of sub-machine gun proposed by Flumen Technologies, the company’s website did say it was offering Sig-Sauer firearms for its clients, most of them government agencies.
Police personnel from the now disbanded Special Task Force Against Gambling parade with the CZ Scorpion EVO 3A1 at the PDRM 211th anniversary in March, 2018.

It is likely that the new sub-machine guns for the GGK will be the Sig MPX sub-machine gun. This is because as I wrote in the previous post that:
The CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1 submachine gun in cal. 9×19 displayed in DSA 2010.

Stating that the sub gun must utilize the short-stroke gas system is interesting as it virtually ensure that MP-5 – which is roller delayed blow back system – will not meet the technical specifications. In fact other sub-guns in service with other units in Malaysia from the HK UMP and the Scorpion EVO which utilised the blow back system are also excluded.
Infact, a Google search showed that only modern 9mm sub-gun which uses the short stroke gas piston is the Sig MPX sub-machine gun. I stand to be corrected of course

APMM STAR team personnel with with Swiss Arms SG-553SB and Heckler & Koch UMP 9mm at LIMA 2011. Wikipedia

Hopefully we will get some explaination in the upcoming DSA 2022 exhibition. Flumen Technologies was the company which was awarded the contract for the Army’s simulation system back in 2016.

— Malaysian Defence

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38 Comments

  1. What are your thoughts on Ukraine war? I think MAF should look into MANPADS and ATGM as I dont think we will even have air or land superiority with any neighbours should invasion happened! This weapons could really put into use…

  2. Ukraine war is caused by the russian leader hellbent on absorbing Ukraine into Russia.

    The last time Malaysia were faced with anything like this is when Sukarno was hellbent on having Sarawak and Sabah incorporated into Indonesia. At that time, Indonesian armed forces strength, quantity and quality is not as much as what russia is fielding right now against Ukraine.

    Will we see another Sukarno in the future? hopefully not, but something we really need to be prepared. With the new Indonesian capital in Borneo, and the making of the strongest indonesian military force in its whole history, the risk of someone in the future to repeat and finally achieve what Sukarno wanted all along will be higher.

    And this is before we even mention about the still existing claim of Sabah from the Philippines.

  3. gonggok – ‘still existing claim of Sabah from the Philippines”

    Something fundamentally different compared to the other things you were on about.

    – The claim is there because it’s politically expedient. No politician can drop it, although Ramos tried.

    – Sabah only resonates with Filipinos of Tausug descent. The others, whether a Ilocano in North Luzon, a Tagalog speaker a Manila, a Cebuano speaker in northern Mindanao or a Bajau in Tawi Tawi, couldn’t give a toss. It’s not in the national psyche or invokes sentiments the way the Malvinas does with the average Argentine.

    Long term things things we should really be worried about are longstanding and unresolved maritime boundaries we have with neighboring countries which at times came close to being ”hot”.

    gonggok – ‘Sukarno wanted all along will be higher”

    He wanted a North Borneo and Sarawak which was closely aligned to Indonesia and was worried that Malaysia was an imperialist attempt to maintain a hold on the region. All this was in a Cold War context.

  4. Since we have no hope of winning a conventional war maybe we should beef up GGK to brigade size and our Para to division size….prepare to fight an asymmetric war like the vietcongs and talibans.

    The regional bully for sure will sponsor terrorist and separatist groups to keep us busy while they take away our EEZ.

  5. Do you know that almost every year around 100 soldiers try out for GGK trials and usually around 20 or 30 of them passed? Getting a brigade size GGK we will need to try out 10,000 soldiers every year.

  6. @Hasnan
    There are no terrorist or separatist groups in our soil for him to sponsor. More likely he will sponsor certain political entities, media & social movers to destabilise the Govt and draw attention away, stymieing our defensive capabilities and create disenchantment among the people. As some Powers have learnt, it is easier to break us & destroy us from inside out rather than an antagonistic approach.

  7. Kamal – ‘MANPADS and ATGM as I dont think we will even have air or land superiority”

    I think before we make any presumptuous, simplistic and rushed assumptions we should first look at things in the proper context and ask ourselves if indeed we were faced with a conflict, who would it be fought against and in what circumstances… No doubt the war in the Ukraine, just like the Nargano Karabakh one will lead to generalised statements and claims but we have to put things in perspective and look at the context.

    Also, ATGMs and MANPADs are not a panacea,and don’t operate in a vacuum. Their successful employment is dependent on a whole list of factors…

    Before things even go kinetic a opponent might jam our radars, SATCOM, radios and internet and power grid. Or lay smart mines to prevent ships from entering or leaving Port Klang. Or we might resist but after 2 days run out of consumables in the form of missiles, certain types of ammo and spares. Depends on the overall context …

  8. gonggok -‘Ukraine war is caused by the russian leader hellbent on absorbing Ukraine into Russia’

    It’s actually an accumulation of
    various/factors/policies which have occurred since the end of the Cold War, namely NATO’s gradual expansion into Russia’s backyard [verbal promises were made that it vwould never occur], the failure of Russia to be integrated with the West at one point Russian membership of NATO was discussed], Russian frustration at what it perceives is a NATO dominated by the
    U.S. to shape the world in its image and to isolate Russia,the desire for Russia to have a non aligned Ukraine as a buffer on its Western flank, etc.

  9. Hasnan – prepare to fight an asymmetric war like the vietcongs and talibans.

    – Both had outside powers supporting them and a bordering friendly country. Another issue is that potential opponents also understand and can conduct asymmetric warfare, not only us. It’s become a cliche to mention asymmetric warfare but look at the context.

    -The plural for Taliban is Talibs.

    – 10 Para. If we can’t afford to fully equip a single brigade in way the army wants, how on earth do we do so with a whole division?

    Before you go into us not being able to win a conventional war, first ask yourself what are the chances we actually might be faced with one, with who and under what operational circumstances?

  10. Azlan,

    Sukarno expansionist interest after successfully gotten Dutch Papua without any pushback from the West was to next incorporate North Borneo and Sarawak into Indonesia. The imperialist notion is just an excuse for him to get North Borneo and Sarawak, just like when he got Dutch Papua. He was hoping there was no resistance from the british, like it was from the dutch, but he was mistaken.

    Marhalim,

    I am surprised that you don’t realize that 21 Grup Gerak Khas is already a Brigade-sized formation.

  11. goggok,

    Actually the main intent [at least publicly] was for a Sabah and Sarawawk.more aligned to.Indonesia rather than to British ”controlled’ Malaya. Together with Macapagal he wanted a loose union called ”Maphlindo”. I’ll gladly provide published references/sources if you like… The roots of what became ”Dwikora” also go back to the Brunei Rebellion.

    gogggok,

    It’s a brigade size HQ and grouping but not an actual brigade size unit in terms of numbers or actual organisation – a pair of commnado/light infantry units and a single battalion sized [on paper] SF unit. Let’s get the narrative correct before saying how ”suprised”
    We are at what others may or may not know.

    In a conversation I had with .. some time back he was also gung ho about expanding the unit. He was ”surprised” when I pointed out that we simply don’t have the manpower because only a bare fraction of men entering the army attempt selection and only a handful make it. The only way would be to significantly increase the number of recruits or to reduce entry standards.

  12. @Hasnan
    ‘Since we have no hope of winning a conventional war maybe we should beef up GGK to brigade size and our Para to division size….prepare to fight an asymmetric war like the vietcongs and talibans.’
    Brother, it takes more than a 2-3 weeks to train any VC clones to take on a regular army, unless you are interested in using them as cannon fodder. Our youngsters aren’t GI Joe and only good at ‘virtual’ war games. The youngsters elsewhere aren’t much different. Look at the Ukrainian youths…more are piling on the highways escaping the Russian invasion than joining the fight!
    * While I am all for bigger and properly armed people’s militia, I don’t think having them to bolster home defence is any good.

  13. Taib – Brother, it takes more than a 2-3 weeks to train any VC clones

    It can take a day to teach someone how to shoot but weeks and constant practice to gain a certain level of proficiency. That’s just the shooting part, not the fieldcrft and other skill sets.

    Ultimately amidst all this talk about the VC, by 1968 after Tet the VC was decimated, a spent force. It was the NVA [with arty, MBTs and APCs] which invaded and took South Vietnam.

    Taib – While I am all for bigger and properly armed people’s militia

    As it stands we can’t even afford to allocate the needed resources for the TA.. Also, people like to talk about militias,guerillas, asymmetric tactics and so on but warfare has significantly and fundamentally changed – militias,guerillas and asymmetric tactics are no substitute for other things and they are not necessarily a panacea or a means to an ends but perhaps an ends to a means.

  14. Problem with Malaysia’s defence is has a bit of everything, nothing of anything to make anyone worry. A little bit of A, a little bit of B, and a little bit of C… Add them all together, its still a little bit of A, a little bit of B and a little bit of C. Malaysia would be better of putting resources into standing up a 2nd parachute brigade. Or create a 2 more Astros unit. Or sell the too few to do anything Little Birds and use the money to lease more utility helicopters. Or spent money on more CB-90s or equivalent, including equipping some with bigger weapons. At the rate things are going, the RMN will soon be a swarm boat navy anyway.

  15. I am guessing those venerable MP5s being replaced would not be scrapped but perhaps refurb for use by lower tiered forces that would not fire them often, perhaps PDRM. The past few years have seen PDRM foot patrols armed with MP5 even in shopping malls. Quite disconcerting when I see armed men with machine guns in civvie areas full of people really.

  16. Assalamuaikum semua.
    A bit out of the main topic and related to MPA article earlier,couple (?) of weeks ago. In my posting I mentioned on the procurement of ex USN P3 Orion MPA. I wonder if Mindef did thought in their mind of such and refurbished including SLEP plus modernise it similar to Canadian block IV P140 aurora. From my view it’s a better option from procuring a half pledge MPA with limited ASuW and ASW purposes.
    Just my RM0.02 opinion

  17. No, this has beaten to death really. The air force don’t want high mileage aircraft which it has never operated before as part of its inventory. Even if the aircraft is gifted, the cost of maintenance, training and operations will cost a bomb

  18. kamal – ”In my posting I mentioned on the procurement of ex USN P3 Orion MPA.”

    I remember what I told you. To look into the reasons why the RMAF rejected former Japanese ones….

    kamal – it’s a better option

    How on earth can it be ”better” when it’s a 40 year old airframe which is no longer being produced and has reached the end of its growth potential?

  19. @Azlan

    Aren’t all 3 GGK units SF/SOF? I don’t think light infantry describes 21st and 22nd properly, because they’re more towards unconventional warfare than those of light infantry units.

  20. Assalamuaikum.
    Just to verify, I heard all 6 little birds for putd has already arrived and currently being stored at a hangar belonging to sapura aviation.
    Anyone heard about it ?

  21. All our atgm procured in very small volume (less than 20-30 pcs) and possibly arrived. We lack money and political will for fundings.

  22. If the government is unable to allocate sufficient funds, perhaps private sector can play a role through sponsorship, maybe Heavy Industry armoured brigades, Bank infantry battalions, Palm Oil Cos mechanized troops. 😉

  23. Anybody noticed how the mighty Russian army is quite incompetent at combined arms?

    Just wonder the state of our puny combined arms if faced by an invasion.

  24. Hassan,

    Multi domain ops are hard and bare in mind the Russians are conducting simultaneous advances on multiple axes. It would be a mistake to assume that they are incompetent at combined arms because there’s a lot more to it than that.

    How well we will perform is dependent on the level of opposition and also operational circumstances. As it stands only a small portion of our army is equipped and structured for high intensity conventional ops. Also it’s not only combined arms tactics but overall coordination and support given from various supporting arms which determine things. Various things come into play.

  25. I believe we have yet to integrate our logistics systems…all islands of automations, some still manual.

    Maybe we should go back to all manual distributed systems taking into requirement for an asymmetric warfare pr hybrid warfare.

  26. Hasnan – ”I believe we have yet to integrate our logistics systems”

    you believe wrongly… Since the late 1980’s the logistical networks were increasingly computerised/digitalised. That is not the issue but the fact we don’t stock various key consumables in large quantities.

    Hasnan – ”Maybe we should go back to all manual distributed systems taking into requirement for an asymmetric warfare pr hybrid warfare.”

    Firstly, what on earth does asymmetric/hybrid/grey zone warfare have to do with the need to revert to a manual system? Secondly, it’s great to talk about asymmetric/hybrid/grey zone warfare [it’s become the ‘in’ thing or cliche] but potential opponents also understand and can practice asymmetric/hybrid/grey zone warfare. Thirdly; despite all the advances in technology and digitalisation we still retain the means to do various things manually – won’t go more on this in an open forum.

  27. @Azlan

    If we have to revert to asymmetric warfare like the Ukrainian Army against a larger force…7 man ambush teams with 7 day rations…a well thought off manual distributed system would be handy as compared to centralised computerised system that can be easily knocked off. Really? We had computerised and integrated our logistics systems across the 3 wings? As of mid 90s, I don’t think we have done that. I have never seen a tender for such a system, given my previous life in the IT industry.

  28. @Hasnan
    Your understanding of modern day logistics is too simplistic. Even a small platoon of men will have a list of logistic trail for everything, from food & water, to armament & equipment & ammo, triage kits, replacement troops, etc. We cannot be expecting them to survive and live off the land so there also need to be infil & exfil logistics. Coordinating various supplies and delivering when they need it requires a high degree of choreography and management which are best done automated via computerisation. You can manage manual system at FOB distributing to the boys but not the back end logistics.

  29. Hasnan – the Ukrainian Army against a larger force

    If you want to stick to this asymmetric warfare theme a more appropriate comparison would be the 7-8 men anti tank teams the Chechens deployed in the streets of Grozny.

    Hasnan – system that can be easily knocked off

    A lot of things can be ”knocked out” which is why as I previously stated, we have contingency plans to revert to a manual or other way of doing things. You re taking about logistical networks – even radios, GPSs, SATCOM, phone and internet lines and radars can be disrupted by EW and cyber means.

    Hasnan – Really?

    As stated previously from the 1980’s onwards efforts were made to progressively computerise things. It was a gradual process. This is,a,fact… Take the RMN, by the mid 1990’s its spares inventory for all the different ships went paperless. It was computerised by an American company.

    Hasnan – I have never seen a tender for such a system

    A lot of things were done via closed tenders… Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it was never there.

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