SHAH ALAM: AW139s for Nuri Replacement. It appears that the RMAF had decided on the Leonardo AW139 twin-engine helicopters to replace the unofficially retired Nuri fleet. Four AW139s will be taking over the role soon, RMAF chief Gen. Ackbal Abdul Samad said today.
Speaking to the media at the closing of Eks Paradise at the Kuantan airbase, Gen Ackbal said AW139s will be introduced as a short term solution prior to the procurement of new helicopters for RMAF in the next RMK. As reported previously in Malaysian Defence, the AW139s was shortlisted together with second hand Black Hawks offered by a subsidiary of a public listed company for the Nuri replacement tender.
Based on the numbers – 4 – it is likely that at least two helicopters will be based at Butterworth and Kuching airbases under a performance based contract where RMAF will pay by the hour rates for an available helicopter. The second is the spare.
It is unclear however which company had offered the AW139s it may well be Gading Aerospace, the company which won the tender for RMN MUH tender.
Ackbal also said he will have further talks with Kuwaiti officials on the possibility of RMAF acquiring second hand F/A-18 Hornets to be retired from the Kuwaiti Air Force. The discussions are expected to take place at the Dubai Airshow which starts on Nov. 14, where the candidates for the UAV, MPA and FLIT/LCA tenders are also expected to take part.
The RMAF chief said further discussions with the Kuwaitis were necessary as they need to find out whether Kuwait was willing to sell the Hornets. It is also likely that the general will want to know the price of the aircraft and the other items they were willing to sell with them, things including spares and other items.
It must be noted that even if the Kuwaitis were willing to sell their Hornets to Malaysia, permission must be granted by the US. Anyhow I will be very surprised if there is money to buy the Hornets within the next five years.
— Malaysian Defence
View Comments (28)
Show me the money to buy all the things. We need new 12 AW139 for RMAF to run operations with existing 12 EC725. Army Air Wing surely want AW139 to replace their Nuris.
Second hand F/A18s? Better buy new jets. Remember we have a lot of problems with A4 Skyhawks in the past.
If indeed the Kuwaitis were willing to sell them and U.S. approval was granted sooner rather than later; I would be very surprised if both the government and RMAF were keen.
The RMAF because of the costs associated with running an aged platform [costs which will rise as the aircraft ages further] and because the pen pushing bureaucrats] might use this as an excuse to delay - yet again - the MRCA purchase when the time comes.
Instead of using whatever funds were available for pre owned Hornets it would make far more sense to add to the numbers of LCAs. In addition to buying them; we'd also have to fork out cash to replace certain thing; be in the radios or time expired parts.
The problems with the A4s was mainly due to the engines. We decided not to get new engines.
The issue with used Hornets is that they will get more maintenance intensive as they get older, more expensive. Unlike the A4s the Hornets also contain a lot of electronics, computers, etc. Nothibg wrong buying pre owned but one has to be selective.
It remains to be seen what platform the army wants/needs. To undersling arty and other things it might need something larger than a AW139.
If its decided for RMAF to go for AW139 then Im all for it since RMN MUH is also gonna be the same model. To go one step further, I would like PUTD utility chopper to be the same model as well, thereby simplifying supply, training, spares, maint, and interservice use a possibility. RMN could also be serviced by RMAF crews or vice versa and the flexibility of standardised chopper fleets is immense.
About the Hornets, the general must be reading my mind. Quick, simple, cheap, & popular with the flyboys. He doesn't need to worry about familiarisation or operational dissimilarities like with Fulcrums, or training towards full operation readiness, only that what spareparts might be unique to the Kuwaiti ones and how we can grab them.
Worry about the price? With Saudi backing, we could convince them to sell for USD$15-20mil a pop - the same price that Canada paid for Aus Hornets - and since we are only interested on their D models we should be able to grab all 8 for USD$160mil or RM664mil, not even half of TUDM CAPEX for 2022 alone. At one stroke we could fill the hole left by Fulcrum, alleviate the strain on our Hornets, and still plenty left for radars & LCA purchase even after deduct USD$40mil for this medium chopper buy.
@morpoyos
We have problems when we did not use them as intended and did not service & upgrade them as needed. SG AF used 2nd hand A4s up until last few years ago despite the same vintage as our A4s and yet you don't see their flyers quibble about these vets that provided them sterling service. Its all about keeping them in shape and if we can service our Hornets we can service those bought from Kuwait ones. 2nd hand doesn't mean it is bad, cause even new ones with bad servicing will fail prematurely.
good enough for short term/lease option but not as permanent replacement for the legendary nuris.For permanent solution we should go for utility version of h215m/blackhawk and in the mean time upgrade existing caracals to full specs csar helos..H215m should be a lil cheaper compared to h225m to standardise across tudm fleet.
I agree with Joe. The Kuwaiti Hornets are the best available stop-gap solution for our erstwhile convulated hand-wringing that comes with the decision to forego the MRCA for the LCA (cum FLIT?) buy proposal. We can safely say the 2022 or even the 2023 budget may not see any LCA buys, or maybe just ½ of what was intended. The 8 D model Hornets may just be the panacea for all the grief that the AF is facing giving temporary relief whilst keeping the nation's bookkeepers happy.
A somewhat bittersweet solution, if it comes to pass. Sans more botch-ups.
Those leased AW139 will basically be the standby SAR helicopter for Butterworth and Kuching air bases respectively, nothing more.
AW139 cannot be a direct replacement for the Nuri. The nuri is a 10 tonne helicopter. The AW139 is a 7 tonne helicopter. It would not be able to lift many things nuri and EC725 can.
As a permanent solution to the nuri, RMAF needs to discuss with PUTD on the taskings that would be undertaken by both. RMAF does not really need 24 more medium helicopters as was said by RAMF chief if PUTD is to have their own nuri replacements. A permanent solution to the nuri may not be existing helicopters. RMAF should take into account the progress of US Army FVL project too, which is planned to enter service by early 2030s.
As for the Kuwaiti Hornets, the Kuwaiti Air Force had offered Tunisia those Hornets for just 1 million USD each. In the end Tunisia did not take up the offer, as it will be a totally new type to them, and they cannot afford the operational costs of the Hornets. RMAF is a current Hornet user and would have no problem operating them for 10 years into the future, and even if it ends out not flown as frequently when compared to the LCA, it would be a good hedge for our defence at just 1 million USD each. In any way, the Kuwaiti Hornets, if we do get them should not affect the implementation of the LCA/LIFT project.
Gonggok - "we do get them should not affect the implementation of the LCA/LIFT project"
The keyword is "should not". In reality similar things have happened before and is a worry for the RMAF.
Buying pre owned Hornets, even for a million each is merely part of the problem. We also have to buy spares and ordnance, replace certain stuff and factor in the key fact that they will cost more to operate as they get older. The RMAF's operating budget will have to be increased and as it stands there is just enough to run what we already have.
As you pointed out, unlikely the army will want AW139s. It will want something with a higher lift capability and a sliding door.
Gonggok -"A permanent solution to the nuri may not be existing helicopters"
On paper the most practical solution would be follow on Cougars. It meets range, endurance and lift capacity requirements.
We did use the A4s as intended [as a low to medium level strike platform] and we did service/maintain them as required. The problem was the engine. A Board Of Inquiry did recommend new engines but the government decided it wasn't a good ROI as we were already looking at a replacement. The RSAF decided to keep theirs flying, we didn't. Not because we couldn't but because we didn't want to