SHAH ALAM: Missiles or Guns? The conversation on the post KD Jebat Caught Fire – good or bad – has veered into the debate regarding the future of the Seawolf SAM missile on the Lekiu class, which had been written previously. The conversation however misses the elephant the room. Which is when will the RMN order a new batch of new surface-to-surface missiles?
And will it be the Exocet Block III for the Lekiu and Kasturi class even though the LCS will be armed with the NSM? We bought around 50 MM-40 Block 2 Exocets in 1993 (for the Lekius) and in 2003 for the Kasturi SLEP. As the youngest Exocets will be 10 years old by now, the time is probably right to order another batch of Exocets, with delivery taking place by 2020.
This is also the same for the Sea Skua missiles of the Super Lynx and the AS244 torpedoes that armed the frigates and the Super Lynx as well.
Unlike the Exocets, there have been no new orders for the Sea Skuas and AS244 since the original order (when we bought the Lekius, Laksamanas and the Super Lynx) in late 1990s.
In fact, even the submarine force ordnance of the SM-39 Exocet and Black Shark may well need to be re-stocked soon though any orders should come after 2020.
Apart from the higher cost of missiles – the MM38 cost some RM300,000 per piece in the 1970s while the Block 2 cost RM3 million per piece – the under-capitalisation of the armed forces remained the biggest obstacle for new orders. This coupled with the Finance Ministry reluctance to pay for missiles – we are not going to war mentality – have made it harder for the services to buy them.
This conundrum will be compounded within the next few years especially for the RMN as the service juggle its finances to pay for the six LCS and its missiles – NSM and VL MICA – and the yet to be named torpedoes while at the same time face the need to re-arm its legacy ships, submarines and helicopters with new missiles and torpedoes. All of this while buying new hulls!
And if funding fall short yet again, there is the possibility that only the LCS and submarines will be combatants armed with missiles beyond 2020 even with the 15-to 5 plan
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (20)
@ Marhalim,
Missiles can be put through life extension programmes. The MM38 was put through one in the 90's, so it is possible for the MM40 to be put through the same too.
Or if we can do trade-ins similar to the otomat's?
And the other obvious elephant in the room... to buy or not to buy Chinese AShM (C705) or SAM's (FL3000N)
Easy, don't buy the full complement. The Lekius like ships its class are supposed to carry 8 anti-ship missiles. Why not just put 4 MM40 block 3, 2 on each side?
Also Sea Wolf can be replaced with VL Mica like the Indonesian ships that were ex-Brunei... but maybe 6 instead of 12.
Marhalim,
The Kasturis received the DRS-300 ESM and Exocet MM-40s around 1998/1999 [this was the period when they were seen with the MM-40 launchers]. I always assumed we made a small order for MM-40s around this period specifically for the Kasturis but I guess these were from a batch originally ordered for the Lekius several years before. I was unaware of another order we made in 2003. Interesting. From what I've been told, MBDA will continue to support the Seawolf for a few more years. As such, we still have at least 2-3 before we are forced to order MICA for the Lekius.
The Blacksharks and SM-39s don't have to be replaced when they time expire in a few years as the can by ''relifed'' by the OEM. Interestingly, the first batch on MM-38s we bought in the 1970's were operational only until a few years ago. They were ''relifed'' by Aerospatiale, followed by the Naval Dockyard and finally in Pakistan, at a facility certified by MBDA.
It will be interesting to see whether the Lekius and Kasturis will spend the last years of their service life armed with a SSM other than an Exocet but I guess the answer lies in how expensive or troublesome it will be to integrate and get certified a missile that has yet to be integrated and certified on NAUTIS and TACTICOS as well as the radar and fire directors on both ships.
Based on the infographic on the 15-5 Armada Transformation Plan release by RMN, the Lekiu Class and Kasturi Class is not feature for future use of RMN. It's better to invest the money for the procurement of MRSS and related to the program. Just my opinion.
Those MM38 can be upgraded to MM40 block 2
Reply
Those MM38s are mostly gate guards at Lumut base nowdays.
I just dont have any words to describe government today...
The attitude sudah kena baru action is still on their head instead of prevention better than cure.
The wait & see attitude...
When real situation happened, just show the enemy toy missile with "bang !" Word on display...
Bcoz of the ramadhan month,i prohibited myself from throwing bad words.their attitude is very unacceptable.
If money is an issue maybe we should admit maintaining 55 hulls is impossible. Y not just 40. Why not just 2 SSM instead of 8. Dont compete with the joneses when in fact we are poorer now than 10 years ago.
Meh,
Not only is there no urgency to retire the Lekius and Kasturis and both are indeed not part of the 15-5 plan but it will take a long time before the 15-5 plan can fully be realised. For all we know it might take more than a decade; by which time both the Lekius and Kasturis will be near their retirement date anyway. There is also no indication that the 5-15 plan will ever be realised : things can change depending on who's heading the RMN and the mood of the government in the future. 2-3 years down the road they might decide that the 15-5 is not feasible or suitable based on politics and a threat environment that has changed compared to 2016 when the 15-5 plan was first announced.
As it is we've had several plans before that were never fully implemented due to various factors. Until the RMN can say for certain - based on a firm commitment by the government - as to when funds can be provided to fully implement the 15-5 plan; the RMN has no choice but to ensure that whatever it has is still operational or is at least able to perform certain types of duties.
Tom Tom,
Of course Seawold can be replaced by MICA. Nobody said otherwise and there is already a plan to get MICA on the Lekius. The question is when funding will be made available and will it be made available before the Seawolf retire. That's the gist of the discussion we're having.
BTW, unless the ship is sailing into a warzone or there's a period of tensions; ships often don't have their full load of missiles anyhow. The risk is that if those missiles have to be fired in anger; there might not be enough to get past the defences of a target.
On ''relifing'' the MM-40s it depends on whether they have been ''relifed'' before [at least the older ones] and whether the OEM is keen on doing it. There have been instances where the OEM has discouraged the end user to do so on account of the age of the missile and because - after similar work has been performed in the past - it can't guarantee how long more the missile can be operated without misfirings.
Buying Chinese stuff is great but there is always the costs of integration and certification; even assuming the Western OEM of the CMS, radar and trackers agrees. As I've pointed out before we had firmer news on the LMS; integration costs might lead or force the RMN into buying mainly Chinese for the LMS - which appears will indeed be the case. If a Western CMS, radar and tracker are selected there is no avoiding the need for integration. Either that or the weapons are Chinese but are ''standalone'' on account of having a Western CMS and radar [a big ''no''].
It's looking more and more likely that the RMN will go for a Chinese sensor/weapons fit to avoid the need for integration and certification and the huge costs and headaches involved. As it is, even integrating American stuff to French stuff can be a problem [as some countries have found out recently]; let alone Chinese stuff to Western stuff. Even the RMN in the past faced delays in getting certain Western stuff to work with other Western stuff as did the RMAF when contracting for MADGE and more recently when getting new SOCs fully integrated with the current set up. Granted, recent advances in software and other areas has made integration less troublesome compared to the past but it's still a major issue and why there are companies who do nothing but integration work - military and non military.
just because the ship could carry 8 missiles doesnt means they carry 8 missiles all the time. T
those missiles are compartmentalized, meaning each missile is self contain. plenty of occasions where Lekiu and Jebat only carry 4 missiles (2 facing port and starboard) with remaining racks are empty