KUALA LUMPUR: I had refrained from making any comments on the new ceiling price for the new RMN SGPV/LCS/frigate as awarded to Boustead Naval Shipyard announced on Friday. Yes I did mentioned I believed the cost will go higher but thats it.
My hesitation is based on the fact that it is very difficult to pin point the cost of naval ships unlike other equipment such as tanks and armoured personnel carriers. Although some had stated that I was wrong to say that the AV8 being developed by DRB-Hicom as over-priced if compared to the Army budget, I am inclined to believe that I got it right. I stand to be corrected of course.
Back to the issue at hand. Comparing prices with other ships is difficult as most countries usually only announced the cost of the hull and it systems, conveniently not publishing the price of the combat and weapon systems, which accounted for 60 per cent of the total cost. It gets more confusing as some countries put old weapon systems on their new ships for example the Danish Absalon combat support ships and the South African Meko A200 frigates.
From the Canadian Defence Policy,Foreign Policy, & Canada-US Relations site:
“With that caveat in mind, the following are rough unit prices for the frigates mentioned in the text and the Single Class Surface Combatant.
• Danish – 1.5B Kr = $333M Cdn (Project Patruljeskibe)
• FREMM – 280M € = $447M Cdn (French version, diesel powered)
• FREMM – 350M € = $600M Cdn (Italian version, turbine powered)
• Dutch –400M € = $639M Cdn (De Zeven Provinciën class)
(or up to –450M € = $719M Cdn quotes vary according to source)
• Spanish – 400M € = $639M Cdn (F100/Nansen class, prices vary)
• Typ 125 – 550M € = $878M Cdn (projected German Fregatte Klasse F125)
• FREMM – 550M € = $879M Cdn (projected air defence version)
• Typ 124 – 700M € = $1.12B Cdn (German Sachsen class air defence frigate)
• CF SCSC – 1.06B € = $1.70B Cdn (Single Class Surface Combatant)
* these figures does not include Standard SM-2 SAMs.
From the list above, I believe only the Germans and Canadian cited the full cost of their ships apart from the Standard SAMs. As for the Laksamana-class frigates (my designation for these ships although the reader’s poll says Ganas-class) – not to be confused with the Laksamana-class corvettes in service – the cost of the programme (ceiling of RM9 billion, around RM1.5 billion per ship) from my guess-estimates is justifiable. Yes, we might get it cheaper but BNS and Kementah had to follow the government’s procurement policy which invariably raised the cost.
Of course we might get it even cheaper, if we did not buy the design (and the right to export, export to where?) and get a foreign shipyard like those in South Korea (as suggested by Azlan) to build it for us. We could also got it cheaper by getting ST Marine to build the hull for us in Singapore (they also probably bought the design of the Delta-class frigates) instead buying the design from DCNS. Anyways, I believed the price would be the same if we had bought the Sigma class frigate from Damen Schelde. On the how the programme was won that in itself required another post.
So how did they come up with the cost then? My estimates, per ship
Hull – around RM500 million
Combat systems, integration, training etc RM1 billion.
Specifications (to be confirmed)
Length 109 metres, displacement 2750 tonnes
Speed 29 knots, twin screws, powered by four diesel engines, probably in CODAD configuration and most probably to be supplied by MTU.
Combat equipment (to be confirmed)
A Bofor 57mm Mk 4 gun on A mounting, an eight cell MK41 VLS launcher at B mounting, navigation radar (most probably SAAB) ESM/ELINT (unknown, could be SAAB) radar (as the DCNS design has an enclosed mast for antennas, it could be the EADS 3D/4D radar, the former the same one on Kedah class or Saab/Thales); EO/IR/FCR (unknown, could be Rheinmental Oerlikon Contraves); NSM SSM in an eight cell missile launcher amidships: countermeasures, unknown, two Oto-Breda 30mm remote controlled guns, and helicopter approach radar (unknown type) hull mounted and VDS sonars (most probably from Thales and 2 x triple torpedo launchers (most probably the same as the Lekiu frigates).
Based on the specifications above, I believe the cost of the ships is justifiable as the price include the IP and the right to export (again to whom?). One caveat though, the ships must be commissioned with all systems in place and no increase in cost during construction, though I am not too confident on this part.
Of course, by adding six helicopters with ASW suite would bring another RM600 million to the cost of the whole programme. As for the total cost of the programme for the next 30 years, my best guess it will be around RM30 billion.
While the cost of the ships is justifiable one must look at the bigger picture of course. Is it justifiable for RMN to be spending RM9 billion for the next ten years? I do not think so if we look at our defence budget. Just read my post on the 2012 defence budget. That said, as someone said to me the other day, we will not be able to afford anything at all if we take into account the long term costs. The Datuk could be correct but as my old boss used to say there are many ways to skin a cat.
It will be easy to say “increase the defence budget” but with other pressing needs such as education and social sectors, defence will always be seen as a wasteful venture especially when most of her sons and daughters (including me of course) are not involved in it.
With no extra money expected in the near future, it is therefore imperative for those involved to do their level best to cut wastage and more importantly, not be swayed by their retirement plans.
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (51)
Interesting that a VDS has been selected as most of us were expecting a towed array. But are needed however, beyond the basic hull mounted passive/active sonar. Wonder if ASIST, which is on the Kedah class, will be fitted for flight ops. What's missing is an electro-optical sight, like the Miradors going on the Kasturis.
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The latest version of the Oerlikon Contraves FCR is equipped with an EO sight but its mostly used for the Millennium cannon.
Why persist with the "Laksamana" designation for this new class? It will only create confusion especially amongst the media who will not be able to make the distinction.
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Its my designation of the frigates. I will continue to call the ships by that name even after the official naming ceremony
Why does it take very long time just to build one 109 meoter long vessel? First one will come only on the 2017. By that time our country will be overrun by enemies. And by that time the weapon system will be outcalssed by new ones. I'm frustrated with the government for letting our defence in poor shape.
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I have no idea why the deadline is 2017 but normally it will take four years for a ship to be built and commissioned. Could it be that they will only start to build in 2013 or they are giving themselves an extra year cushion?.
I guess najib is very confident that our economy can grow consistently for the next 15 years for these defence mega projects, if we assume each branch gets rm10 billion (RM8 billion for AV8, RM9billion for LCS and possibly RM10 billion+ for MRCA) we will be spending about RM30 billion of procurement for the next 10 years. I guess we can afford this but what plague the public even the defence enthusisasts are the big price tag when we can easily save by going by other options-second hand ships from tpfinancially troubled European countries or, have other shipyards build for us. BNS better make sure that the design rights of the Meko 100 and Gowind 200 get us some export customers or at least use these designs to supplement our future needs, not about another IP for the next batch of TGPV.
This ToT for defence purchase has been hallmark of Mahathir though an astounding leader is completely clueless about defence, we probably wasted more money on every military equipment bought under his era,the Lekius,the Migs for example, utter crap and, like the horse breeding technique we got from Poland for buying the PT-91M, we still dont breed horses till this day,the Poles must be laughing *** off.
Dont want to be rude, but as long these old semi dictators are looking behind najib's shoulder or future Pm, we will continue this ToT legacy for everything.
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Its not about defence or ToT its about rewarding some people
You forgot about the most expensive flight ever!
IMHO for more bang for buck, just limit the LCS to 4 unit or RM6 billion. The extra RM3 billion can be used to buy and refurbished the nakhoda ragam class (3 of them). So at least by 2014, we can get 3 corvettes armed with Exocet MM40, light torpedo and sea wolf SAM while waiting for the 4 LCS. But i guess it will be more complicated that what i suggest huh?
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Its not complicated but your option meant that the shipyard gets less money....
"One caveat tnough, the ships must be commissioned with all systems in place and no increase in cost during construction, though I am not too confident on this part."
This should be underlined!
As for the cost, two comments:
At RM1.5 billion per ship, if one of them gets sunk by a cheap anti-ship missile, or worse a 'dislodged shaft', that will be a VERY expensive 4th submarine (KD Pari being the 3rd)!
Why do we not invest in other ways to defend our seas? In my estimation long-range maritime patrol aircraft such as the P-8 would be a better investment.
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1st comment: It is part of the risk we take
2nd comment: An aircraft or UAV does give a longer range patrol capability but no presence. We need hulls to give the "Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn’t have f–ked with?” says Clint Eastwood in Grand Torino" moment. Remember the incident a few months back when an Indonesian patrol boat stopped a Malaysian fishing vessel off Penang. They sent helicopters to the scene but the patrol boat ignored them. It will be a different matter if it was a gunboat bristling with guns and missiles.
One correction here:
The latest TMX FCR from Contraves is equipped with a general purpose EO, designated TMEO Mk2, based on the proven design of the Rheinmetall MSP series. It can be used basically on any weapon platform, and had been selected to retrofit multiple German Navy ships since 1998. It is just coincidentally that it is fitted on the LM Sea Slice to support a Millennium Gun demonstration.
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But the question here is whether the FCR has been integrated with the ESSM or for that matter Aster 15.
Or are we supposed to do the integration?
In some way, i think Kamal's suggestion is better!
With RM9 billion, we can get 4 LCS + 3 nakhoda ragam class + with upgrade. Don't the decision maker learnt their lesson from NGPV's issue? RM1billion/fleet that have gun only? When are they going to install sufficient weaponaries for NGPV?
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As I had mentioned before the navy is wary of any plans to upgrade the Kedah class fearing it will siphon funds from the frigate programme.
And any deal that will cut the number of new frigates will be resisted.
The Kedah class programme cost around RM6 to RM7 billion although some put it at RM9 or RM10 billion. No exact figure was ever announced so take your pick
So n general, the navy has never increased the firepower capability of its surface combatants since the Lekius and Laksamanas,brilliant..so we end up with oversized gunboats that can barely match the frigate size fishing boats from China.
I see that Indonesians Vietnam have also raced ahead in terms of acquisition of surface combatants with their Gepard and Sigmas which IMo were acquired at a faster pace than the Kedahs, the Indonesians in the past years aven managed to axquire more missile FACs that xan sink the Kedah sips anytime.Forge abput catching up to Singapore, we are now struggling to stay alittle bit ahead of Indonesia and vietnam.
Een though the current BNS is not the same as the Amin Shah monster, I also share Marhalim's pessimistic views that these Gowinds have the potential to become expensive oversized gun boats....as he said..
The politicians are spreading the dough around vor electioms..we are also seeing the same moves around Malaysia....Felda...privatization of KTMB by MMC..its all door gifts for the 1 percent.