PETALING JAYA: Based on the story below, it appears that the no stack design of the Meko 100/200 series are not that really practical.
As I had mentioned earlier Boustead Naval Shipyard, the forerunner of PSC Naval Dockyard, had submitted a smoke stack equipped design for the RMN new frigate (LCS) programme. It did not get what it had proposed and looks likely the Dutch design is being backed by the RMN.
As for the Kedah class, the misfortune of its cousin ships of the South African Navy does not bode well for its future.
Does this mean that the Kedah class future lies with the red ensign of the Coast Guard and not hallowed halls of the navy? Only time will tell.
By the way, the cost of a new diesel engine together with repair work for the Amatola is put at RM6.6 million. The four ships originally cost South Africa around RM4.4 billion while our six ships cost us double that amount together with lesser capabilities.
South African Navy’s SAS Amatola to receive new diesel engine
08:35 GMT, August 16, 2011 South African Minister of Defence and Military Veterans Lindiwe Sisulu has confirmed the replacement of the port diesel engine of the SAS Amatola will cost R16 million. Answering a parliamentary question by Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald, she added the work would be complete by next March.
South African Navy Chief Director Maritime Strategy Rear Admiral Bernhard Teuteberg last November briefed the National Assembly’s Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans that rough seas had irreparably damaged the engine. He at the time also put the cost of the repair at R16 million.
Teuteberg said the “starboard propulsion unit on one of the frigates is broken. An investigation subsequently discovered a shortcoming on an underwater exhaust valve, the South African Press Association reported. But Sisulu in her answer – drafted by Teuteberg – states it was the port diesel. The cause of the damage was “ingress of water through the exhaust system and due to sensor failure. This was caused by normal wear and tear.”
The admiral last year amplified that the Navy believed “this to be a design shortcoming, but particular to the sea states we operate in. It happened when the vessel was rolling excessively and therefore the pressure changed as the exhaust went down. And there was water ingress… to the engine, [which] damaged the crankshaft of this engine,” he said.
The discovery of the faulty valve had led to an investigation of the Navy’s three other frigates. “An… engineering change was done in order to improve the closing of the valves under extreme conditions,” Teuteberg said. The ships are fitted with a CODAG-WARP (COmbined Diesel And Gas turbine-WAter jet and Refined Propellers) propulsion system consisting of a General Electric LM 2500 gas turbine delivering 20,000kw (26,820 hp) and two MTU 16-valve 1163 TB93 diesels, each delivering 5920kW or a combined 11.84mW (16,102 hp). These, in a variety of combinations via a Renk combined gearbox, power two shafts, each fitted with a LIPS controllable pitch 5-blade 3.4m diameter propeller, or a centreline LIPS LJ210E waterjet (6-blade impeller, 2.8m diameter) with a max forward thrust of 1650kN and a crash-stop facility of 3300kN.
Earlier, he told members South Africa had got “the best value for money ever” when it bought the frigates from Germany, SAPA reported. “They are brilliant. At sea they are capable, they’ve got long legs, they’ve got speed when you require them, the sensors work beautifully… I tell you, perfect ships for our type of coast.” Teuteberg said the repair would involve cutting open the vessel’s hull. The frigate was currently operational, propelled by its starboard engine and gas turbine-driven water jet, but is confined to coastal waters. “We would not send her beyond that,” Teuteberg said.
But they have. The Amatola has just returned from a three-month counter-piracy patrol in the Mozambique Channel as part of the secretive Operation Copper.
The class was acquired for R9.6 billion as part of Project Sitron,a component of the controversial Strategic Defence Package signed on December 3, 1999. The contracts became effective on April 28, 2000. The Amatola arrived in South African waters in November 2004, the Isandhlwana in February 2005, the Spioenkop in May and the Mendi in September 2005.
Meanwhile, it is still not clear when the engine incident happened. The parliamentary answer also noted that the starboard diesel had suffered damage and “became inoperational”. The defective component was replaced at a cost of R3185.00. The answer did not say when and for how long that engine was inoperable – or when it was repaired.
The answer also added another frigate has experienced engine problems, but gave no details. It has been reported this was the SAS Mendi, which then also completed a three month Op Copper deployment with just one diesel and the gas turbine.
(Courtesy by defenceWeb; First published at http://goo.gl/ZK7zf)
–Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (42)
Rather than upgrading the Kedah Class to carry NSM missiles, i agreed with the idea to give the ships to the Coast Guard instead.
Maybe we can replace it with the Brunei's Nakhoda Ragam class OPVs. Despite rumours of the Algerian Navy interest, all three ships are remain unsold and the RBN didn't want to use it due to lack of expert personnel to operate the ships.
The ships are basically the same as our F2000 frigates in term of design, weaponry and sensors. It just lack a heli hangar and endurance at sea when compared to the F2000 frigates which is bigger than them. Then again 3 ships to replace 6 ships is hardly enough despite the advance weaponry and sensors.....
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As far as I know there is no immediate plans to transfer the Kedah class to the MMEA. If it happens it will be after the frigates/LCS have been commissioned into the navy
Even the Germans have had problems with their MEKO class ships (K130 Braunschweig class). I don't find it unusual for problems to arise with any new class of ships. What is important is how those problems are overcome in terms of cost and time. It should also be noted that more classes of ships means more unique problems to solve. It is better to have fewer classes and more ships per class. I hope that is clear.
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Having to replace an engine due to water ingestion is a major design flaw, it is not a teething problem.
Nothing is perfect, so be vigilant in operation and maintenance must tip-top.
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Based on the story it appears that the sensors at the exhaust opening failed and this prevented the sailors from noticing water was being ingested. It must have been a lot of water ingested to damage the crankshaft. If I remember correctly the exhaust openings on the Kedah class is about 10 to 15 feet above the waterline. It was designed to be that low so water spray would mask the IR signature. The louvre openings could be closed of course but I guess that's why they had sensors there so closing would be automatic.
In this case, BND should send engineers to South Africa to learn and apply it back home. Rather than ditch/hot transfer 6 Kedah to MMEA (if they do that now it can raise unnecessary questions in Dewan Rakyat,better TLDM up-gunned them to FFG standard (whatever FFG designation meant to TLDM)ASAP then Voila! TLDM gets 10 FFG to play with (2 jebat 2 kasturi 6 kedah). Yet, is it a much needed capability compared to TLDM Amphibs requirement? Imagine tomorrow Sarawak faced with megadisaster/war/uprising then all ports/airports knocked out,TLDM confident to transport relief/reinforcement with just 2 heavily flogged MPCSS?
Ya la guys, transferring the boats to MMEA does not resolve any of the issues. We are transferring the smoke issue to them. Anyway relatively speaking, RM 6.6 mil is ok - payable.
Marhalim, are you sure your figure is correct?
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I google it...
“the best value for money ever”. … I tell you, perfect ships for our type of coast.”
HAHAHAHAHHAAA...I like the value for money part. Something to extra think about for the proponent of such ideas.
By the way, google HMAS LEMON SCENTED while you are at it.
I agree that "having to replace an engine due to water ingestion is a major design flaw". My point, as I stated, is that it is NOT unusual for problems (big or small) to arise with ANY class of ships (even for 'top-shelf' navies such as the Deutsche Marine). What needs to be looked at is whether or not the problem that the South Africans are having will also affect the Kedah class ships. If so, then how much will it cost to modify the ships? And how long will it take? If we were looking at buying the ships today, it would be a no-brainer. The issue is that we have the ships now. The investments have been made; we might as well put them to use in the best way possible. It would be foolish to transfer them to the MMEA at this point.
On another note, "New Russian Air-to-Air Missile Unveiled":
"Russian industry has unveiled a new air-to-air missile for engaging fighters and airborne early warning aircraft at extended ranges.
"The missile, the RVV-BD, appears to be the latest iteration of prolonged development activity, although the design also features differences from configurations previously seen in Russia.
"The missile's key feature is its extended range, which company officials note is 200 km (124 mi.) using a two-pulse motor, or significantly above the 120-km range for the R-33E that the RVV-BD nominally would replace. The new weapon also can engage targets pulling 8g, whereas the R-33E was limited to 4g.
"Company officials differ on the exact development status. One says the development activity is wrapped up, although others indicate more work may need to be done.
"The missile features a 60-kg (130-lb.) blast/fragmentation warhead, activated with a radar proximity fuze or on impact. The active radar seeker has a field of view of +/- 60 deg.
"The missile measures 4.06 meters (13 ft.) in length, with a diameter of 0.38 meters.
"The missile is not designed for internal carriage on the T-50 fighter, says one official for missile maker Vympel. However, two of four rear control fins can be folded for recessed carriage on the MiG-35. The MiG-29 also is seen as a potential launch platform, although other aircraft, including Su-27 derivatives, are likely targets for the weapon's use too. The missile weighs 510 kg."
Any chance we'll see it on the Su-30MKMs any time soon?
At the moment the MMEA simply does not have the personnel, the infrastructure nor the operating budget to operate the Kedahs. If the Kedahs were to go to the MMEA so would dozens of RMN people, to operate the ships.
Lurssen has been having a hard time securing a buyer for the Nakhoda Ragams because of the price..... prior to Algeria, Pakistan had expressed an interest. They were reportedly built to a higher standard than the Lekius and using a higher grade of steel.
FareedLHS,
The question you should ask is whether we will see R-77s/AA-11s/Adders/AMRAAMSKI's on the MKMs anytime soon. I'll believe in the RVV-BD when it actually enters service with the Russian Air Force! The R-77 programme was delayed for years due to technical problems and Vympel's lack of cash - the only thing that saved it were large orders from China and India.
Aiyah.... the main issue the RMN has with the shipside exhaust is the smoke entering the ship through the air intakes when the ship runs her gensets in harbour. I believe this has been handled by a re-design of the air intake by Boustead. The problem with water ingress through the shipside exhausts have never occurred and most probably will never occur on the KEDAH class if the ships are operated within the design limits and if they are maintained well. Remember, the FACs and LAKSAMANA class also have shipside exhausts.
I believe the South African Navy ship in question operated over and above her design limit. She must have been rolling severely, scooped in water on one side, then rolled the other way, thus sending the water straight back through her silencers into the engine. The non-return flap on the exhaust must have failed to operate or were stressed over their design limits and maybe the sensors were also faulty, thus the crew in the Machinery Control Room didn't know the flaps were faulty, and many other maybes!
Anyway, I also understand that the cost of 4.4 billion for the South African Navy ships is only for the platform. The South Africans undertook to install the CMS and weapons on their own in South Africa. So, cannot compare costs unless the cost of the CMS and payload items are factored in, and we all know this maybe up to 20 - 25% of the cost of the ship itself!
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Thanks for the clearing up the issue. The waters of the South Africa are quiet severe to say the least!