JF-17 at LIMA 19, Maybe

AVIC/PAC JF-17

SHAH ALAM: JF-17 at LIMA 19. Sino Pakistani JF-17 may make it’s debut in Malaysia this March, if everything goes to plan that is.

No one has confirmed the participation of the JF-17 but the likely debut of the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) Tejas LCA at the biennial Langkawi air show this March, will definitely put pressure on Pakistan to send it’s own fighter jet to Malaysia.

Avic/PAC JF-17. Wikipedia commons

I was told that the Lima organisers had already asked the Pakistan government, defense ministry and the manufacturer, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) to get at least one JF-17 – even on static display – at LIMA 19. I was told the response have been lukewarm so far so the news that HAL is sending the Tejas to Langkawi may change the equation.

AVIC/PAC JF-17. YouTube

Again, it must be noted that both India and Pakistan have not yet confirmed officially that they are bringing their aircraft to Langkawi. Both countries have been invited to bring their military planes and ships to Langkawi for LIMA and it is likely both are willing to that. Bringing the Tejas and JF-17 are the icing in the cake as people like to say.

AVIC/PAC JF-17. Wikipedia

Recently pictures and videos of JF-17 in service with Myanmar Air Force were uploaded to various social media channels, proof that it is the first export customer of the type. Myanmar together with China and Pakistan have yet to confirm officially that the aircraft are in service in the neighbouring Asean country, however.

AVIC/PAC KF-17 of Myanmar Air Force. Internet.

Whether or not this will have any effect on the aircraft potential for RMAF, is beyond me. I am of the opinion that both the Tejas and JF-17 are not suitable for Malaysia, however. My opinion is of course not important.

The JF-17 has had a charmed life in Malaysia with Reuters news agency reporting that it was among the candidates for the MRCA project. It was never, ever considered actually for the MRCA.

As for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) requirement of which the Tejas is also being pushed for, the project remains in the wish list of the RMAF and it’s not yet been green lighted. Perhaps within late this year we may have inkling whether the funding will be made available or not. The attitude which prevailed over Jalan Padang Tembak – the same one for the last 40 years – does not inspire confidence,

-Malaysian Defence

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34 Comments

  1. Picture of Myanmar 1704. This picture is actually from 2017

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-u-Kq0l2BJKI/WaLnipZpfjI/AAAAAAAALgc/4Ruxe3H_jscvIJu8HlleFzEWjfxcp2QVwCLcBGAs/s1600/DIJvvVmUIAI4LDj.jpg

    With weapons in Dec 2018

    https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/48370307_913642362175385_8137410545566351360_n-jpg.527120/

    Two seater JF-17 prototype

    https://www.aviationsmilitaires.net/media/pictures/C-ZDDHIUIAA0Icc.jpg

    Anyway what about T-50 or FA-50 participation this year? Any from Thailand, Indonesia or even The Philippines?

  2. If both really do come, they must be kept poles apart; East-West, North-South. We certainly don’t want a ‘Kashmir’ on our hand.

  3. Acctually JF-17 is the best aircraft if we can get the latest version.Latest version of the JF-17 is even better in some aspect compared to region aircraft fighter such as Indonesian F-16 block 15 and Block32+ and also un-upgrade version of Thailand F-16 Block 15 OCU.

  4. Why not the J10 rather than Tejas or JF17? on paper J10 is equivalent to F16 c block 50 and above with price only 20% higher than JF17, while is Teja even already operational?

    Just throwing question only..not really a preference

    Reply
    I am not sure whether China is willing to sell the J10 to us

  5. Abu,the JF-17 is even better in some aspect compared to region aircraft fighter such as Indonesian F-16 block 15 and Block32+ , can you share your points? very interesting indeed.

  6. @ alpha zulu

    The current block 2 JF-17 and also the proposed block 2+ supposedly offered to azerbaijan is quite a capable aircraft.

    As it is, it is cleared to deploy various chinese, western, brazil and turkish weapons and equipment.

    Some if the weapons it can deploy:
    CM-400AKG – Hypersonic Carrier Killer
    Ra’ad – Stealth Stand off Cruise Missile (Nuclear Capable)
    C-802AK – Multirole Attack Cruise Missile
    SD-10A – Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile
    MAR-1 – Anti Radiation Missile
    MAA-1, AIM-9L/M, PL-05EII – Within Visual Range Air to Air Missile
    CBU-100 – Anti Armor Cluster Bombs
    GBU-10/12 – LT-2 – Laser Guided Smart Munitions
    LS-6 – GPS Guided Direct Attack Munitions
    H-4 – long ranged (120+ km) Stand of weapon
    HAFR-1– Anti Runway Bomb
    Takbir Satellite Guided Stand off Munition
    LS-Series – Satellite Guided Glide Munitions

    The block 2+ is to be supplied with an AESA radar.

  7. alpha,
    … on January 14, 2019 at 9:28 pm already answered your question but here I want to add some.

    Latest version of JF-17 fitted with AESA radar and JHMCS like system where as today this both tecnology still not equip to the old version Indonesia and Thailand F16.

    Some of the Indonesia F16 also (from Peace Bima Sena 1) still can’t do a BVR if we compared to the latest Block of JF-17.

    CMIIW.Thank You.

  8. Frankly, I think many previous participants have realised the bullshit we keep putting out that Malaysia is a potential customer. We’ve been spinning that story for the past 10-plus years with no real action.

    Re: JF-17

    Once again, the question is whether we are going Chinese or staying Western. The JF-17s may launch a wide array of weapons but so does the FA-50. The difference is that we have at least some AMRAAMs and GBUs etc in inventory but no Chinese weapons at all.

    Oh, and you can forget trying to use those “carrier killers” to threaten Liaoning or Shandong in the SCS, because they are guided by the Chinese satellite system, it would be child’s play for the PRCs to program a denial of service to exported weapons in the event of a conflict.

  9. Don’t get me wrong, im more interested in data; like power to weight ratio or sustain g load or sustain turn rate. mIMHOax take off weight or event wing load, JF17 is rather like lightweight fighter compare to medium weight F16. It is pointless to compare what a fighter can carry with their array of “able to carry” As the launch parameters, data link and Ecm and eccm plays a part that is suited up on a fighter. Their flight characteristic will severely change. Lastly, comparing to earleir verson of an F16 and JF17 block.2+ onwards is like comparing Saga (1st production) to a brand new lastest product. And no im not advocating buying F16.
    If you really want to compare vis a vis, the block 3+ should be compare to F16V. As it is produce during the same era.Then again, the table will show the margin. my opinion is its a different class of fighter all together. Chill bro

  10. Why would we go against China again? We do have territorial dispute with them but not yet going to arm conflict. BTW it may sound far fetch but wouldn’t uncle Sam can do the same with the Amraam should suddenly we start using it against its buddiez

  11. @ alpha zulu

    Remember this LCA/LIFT requirement is a replacement of the Hawk 208 fighting capability and the MB-339CM training capability. Anything extra is a bonus. A basic peacetime QRA/air policing capability, able to quickly scramble and able to have do supersonic dash is what we also need as a replacement of what our MiG-29 tasked to do previously. All other more advanced tasks and requirements would be fulfilled by our Su-30MKM, F/A-18D Hornets and future MRCAs.

  12. LCA more to air fighter which we want to replace mig29 and hawk.. machi as well .. for me bvraam like pl12 and pl9 is enough.. precision bombing is bonus.. (not sure any deterent to use gps/ins kit maybe someone can help) .. HMSD is a must but no need irst + targeting pod.. better radar than mig / sh is enough and i dont thing we shoulg pursue aesa for first batch.. so.. as a contra to mig upgrade plan we can initially buy 10 unit block 2.. and follow with 18 unit after discomission of hawk n sh… At the end we will own 18 su, 28 jf17 and other 18 new 5 gen ac..

    The challenge is to keep uniform with 2nd batch of same ac (nvm jf17 or else..) and hoping for double seat version coz we need them otherwise we still have to buy other..( t50?)

    Rmaf have to come up with good proposal.. inc future plan plus element of saving.. avoid rojak buying.. 3 type of fighter is enough(prior su retirement) after that we can maintain with 2 type of fighter..

  13. If interesting the J10 is heads n shoulders above the J17. Another question to condider is what avionics will the pak/china joint venture be eilling to sell to us.
    Maintenance cost compared to others like F50 or even F16

  14. @Kamal
    US has remote kill codes access to all of its exported missiles and related hardware, since all these are run by software. Like putting a timebomb virus in a program, waiting for the go to self-destruct.

    Common knowledge on US weapon users not to use those supplied digitalised weapons against their creator.

  15. Some people will choose xiaomi because of it has high spesification and cheap. I would not say xiaomi is better even if the specs higher and price cheaper.

    Outside US and Russia. There is no country able to produce millions parts of fighter in good quality. Even boeing and airbus have thousands of suppliers to make their product is the best.

  16. Jib, can you imagine the potential for a cyber attack to cripple US forces if a contractor is hacked or a weapon is reverse engineered after it is lost in an accident or training or transferred on the sly by a friend?

    …”Too much hollywood movies eh?”

    Lies are bad enough but these are stupid lies. I could almost tolerate them more if they were smarter.

    Yeah like the Russians or Chinese or Europeans wouldn’t do what he said if it were true.

  17. Another issue I can think of that may not be in favour of jf17 for RMAF.. It still uses Russian Engine R93 if I am not mistaken. Not sure if the latest variant already uses Chinese made engine. AFAIK only J10 started to use the chinese made WS10 engine. Anything Russian may get us in trouble with Uncle Sam’s economic sanction currently imposed on Russian companies.

  18. Who would want to buy the Tejas as after 30 years of development, it still hasn’t been inducted into any airforce, even the Indian Air Force refused to acquire the Tejas. Tejas sold/in service – 0; JF-17 – more than a 100 in service in the Pakistan Air Force.

  19. We suppose invite the more advance jet to come not the upgraded technology. Its look like we move backward direction. Our neighbor especially from South already moved to the 5 generation fighters. Not understand our government policy for air force and Navy. We are still looking to the 4 generation technology. Worry this will keep us big gap behind from our neighbor. We, Malaysia are going to the developed nation soon, but regarded to our military equipment still behind schedule. Give up and disappointed with our government policy for defend, Our neighbor strive to get the best defend equipment, but we still looking the old stuff.

  20. @Algojo

    you talk as though defence equipment is free. if you can’t afford then you can’t get what you’re asking for.

  21. @ algojo

    We can’t buy defence equipment using monopoly money.

    LCA is just that, Light Combat Aircraft. It is not meant to be the top of the line fighter for TUDM.

    We have our MKM that should see us through 2045++ and hornets that would fly up till 2030++

    We can have our 5th gen fighters then, as a replacement of the Hornets when the time comes. But for now, what we need are simple supersonic fighters to replace our Hawks, MB-339CM and for our peacetime QRA missions.

  22. Breaking News!

    Singapore to by F-35!

    Full statement from the Singapore Ministry of Defence, issued at 15:00H 18 January 2019

    RSAF and DSTA Complete Technical Evaluation of F-16 Replacement

    1. The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) and Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA) have completed their technical evaluation to select the next generation fighter to replace its F-16s. The F-16s will have to retire soon after 2030 and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) has been identified as the most suitable replacement to maintain the RSAF’s capabilities.

    2. However, the technical evaluation also concluded that the RSAF should first purchase a small number of F-35 JSFs for a full evaluation of their capabilities and suitability before deciding on a full fleet. In the next phase, MINDEF will discuss details with relevant parties in the US before confirming its decision to acquire the F-35 JSFs for Singapore’s defence capabilities.

  23. “Malaysia is also being considered as a possible market for the FA-50 as it looks for a Light Combat Aircraft requirement and has sent a Request for Information (RFI) to KAI this month for 12 aircraft, with an option for 24 more.”

    Desperately Lima?

  24. @ steelshot

    Well there is nothing much to anticipate for everyone for this year’s LIMA. Coupled with its date very near to both Indian and Qatar air shows.

    Anyway IMO golden eagles are a default choice for LCA/FLIT requirements and it has to be something very wrong for TUDM not to have it as its top choice.

  25. Why would we want JF-17 ? It has crashed twice , its so low quality that even China which made it rejected using it for its air force . JF-17 block 1 & 2 does not even have basic equipment like Helmet Mounted Sight , nor it has High Off-bore Shoot capability . They uses Outdated Hybrid Fly by wire flight control system. Max-speed is only 1.6 and its all metallic airframe has RCS bigger than Gripen E or F-16 V .

    IMHO if we dont want Chinese / Russian , then go with Indian LCA Tejas . 12 Tejas already in service they plan to complete 16 Tejas squadron by March . It also has Zero crashes and reliable American GE-404 engine unlike JF-17 which uses faulty russian engine which was reason of 1st JF-17 crash in 2011 which killed its pilot .Sorry we dont want JF-17 crap in RMAF .

  26. @ amiruddin

    JF-17 already has 3 operational squadron and exports to 2 countries. Tejas has not even has passed full operational capability, and the Mark 1 is a very very compromised stopgap aircraft.

    All those hms and off boresight hardware are fully israeli and not even assembled in india, and wont be able to be supplied to malaysia anyway.

    And how the hell you know the RCS of JF-17 anyway?

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