Picture of the Week: F5 J85 engine

PETALING JAYA: During a visit to the Airod engine shop on July 9, we encountered several J85 engines undergoing overhaul at the facility. I am assuming that our F5s, especially the Recce variant will be around for a while.

RMAF J85 engine at the test bay at Airod

The engine in the picture had undergone testing at the engine bay following a complete repair and overhaul though we did not see the airframe. The MRO of the airframe – if needed – would be conducted at the Butterworth air base where the F5 fleet are based.

- Malaysian Defence

Picture of the Week – July 30, 2012 PETALING JAYA: As you all know Exercise Pitch Black 2012 ...
Picture of the Week PETALING JAYA: Due to some difficulties after migrating to a ...
TUDM Open Day 2012 SHAH ALAM: The TUDM Open Day 2012 held at Subang ...
Pic of The Week: RMAF Fulcrums with ACMI pods PETALING JAYA: Pictured below is four RMAF MiG-29 Fulcrum flying ...
Pictures of the Week: Oct 24, 2012 PETALING JAYA: KD Lekiu successfully conducted a contractual firing of ...

16 Responses to "Picture of the Week: F5 J85 engine"

loreng says:

July 10, 2012 at 7:55 am

The F5 recce version is really outmoded in its application and usefulness. These days recce functions are best performed by UAVs.

Reply
Beggars cannot be choosers. Since we don’t have any UAV – outside Ops Pasir – the recce F5 will have to do
Azlan says:

July 10, 2012 at 3:37 pm

Recce functions are best performed by a combination of UAVs and fighters fitted with recce pods – both are meant to complement each other and that is why many leading air arms, which are established UAV operators, still equip their fighters with recce pods. Given our current operational requirements, the 2 RF-5Es which have had digital cameras installed, are still useful to have.
loreng says:

July 10, 2012 at 6:21 pm

Useful military targets are seldom static.Those of value are often associated with speed of movement.They need to be detected and acted upon by the military commander in real-time.The information obtained by the RF-5E cannot be down-linked; quite often there will be some delay before the military commander could get hold of the information.I suppose it is okay for the trench-type warfare situation of WW1 but pretty useless against fast moving forces we find in today’s world.
We could have a good UAV capability today if only decision-makers understand the limit of our local defence industries.
FareedLHS says:

July 11, 2012 at 6:32 am

The 2 RF-5s are not useful to have when the cost to keep them operational (spares, support staff, etc.) is taken into account. It would be better to get some recce pods for the Hornets. There are numerous options available. It should also be noted that the Damocles pods fitted to the Su-30s have a reconnaissance capability with instant transmission of imagery to ground stations.

Also a note on the J85 engine. While a fine engine in its day (highest thrust to weight ratio of any production engine in its class), it is time to retire this decades old (first flown in the 1950s) and severely underpowered turbojet (maximum 22 kN); also note that most military aircraft engines today are turbofans (more fuel efficient). While it makes sense for large air forces such as the USAF to continue use of the J85 (for the T-38s), it makes no sense at all to maintain an entire support network for a few engines.

Lastly, for the cutting-edge technology junkies:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18633917
zainal abidin says:

July 11, 2012 at 8:31 am

Given the rather limited combat aircraft that the RMAF has it would be wise to convert remaining F-5E to the recce version.

Reply
The problem is that we don’t have an official number of F5s in service. I am guessing that we have at least six E airframes flying plus the two Rs. IMO is the best set-up for the moment at least. I don’t believe the F5s will be flying beyond 2015.
cheekucai says:

July 11, 2012 at 1:30 pm

” it makes no sense at all to maintain an entire support network for a few engines. ”

since when we care about support network sensibility? Our procurement trends don’t seem to care how many types of aircraft there are (or rifles etc etc), the more the merrier they say.
Azlan says:

July 11, 2012 at 3:24 pm

loreng,

Then how would you explain why almost every single major NATO air arm still invests in recce pods for their fighters, despite having UAVs and other ISR assets? And why do you think the RSAF – which is the most prolific and advanced regional UAV operator – still operates RF-5Es? Granted, you can’t download imagery in real time from our RF-5E but given our peacetime operational requirements, are still very useful to have.

Fareed,

That’s interesting to know, I had no idea Damocles had such a capability. From what I’ve been told, performance wise, Damocles falls short of Litening and Navflir as it has to be employed at a lower altitude and that’s why Thales is currently working on a replacement pod.
Azlan says:

July 11, 2012 at 4:53 pm

The South Africans are happy -

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26673:denel-inks-r35-billion-deal-with-malaysia&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105

An AA version of the AV8 with a turret for a beam rider like Starstreak would perhaps have been more useful than an AT version. Hard to believe there will be 54 AV8s with Ingwe.

Reply
Theres another 80 AV8 to be fitted with turrets…
loreng says:

July 11, 2012 at 5:46 pm

Azlan,
Agreed with you, it does not make tactical sense in our environment to have the Ingwee mounted on the AV8.The anti-tank protection for the Cavalry when on reconnaissance mission is better provided by other method/means.
The recce pods are fine.It enable the fighters to engage ground targets immediately when they are detected.
RMAF assets are for conflict situations, not just to meet peace-time requirement.
Azlan says:

July 12, 2012 at 6:44 am

Loreng,

Yes, but when the MAF is having problems meeting its peacetime operational comittments we don’t have the luxury of planning wholly for ”conflict situations”. The priority should be what we actually need as opposed to what we might need for a situation we are currently not facing. That’s why I’m a firm believer of Cougars, MPAs and UAVS and more Cougars, MPAs and UAVS rather than big ticket sexy items like MRCAs, missiles, etc.
FareedLHS says:

July 12, 2012 at 7:20 am

Yes, the Damocles pod can be used for reconnaissance. In Thales own words it can be used for “[m]edium range day/night small targets reconnaissance”. Thales is working on upgrading Damocles, as well as possible replacements, to deal with its current deficiencies compared to other pods. As I noted we should evaluate and procure pods for the Hornets. Four Sniper pods from Lockheed Martin would be a good choice. They have already been integrated on Canadian Hornets. Litening pods originate in Israel.

Off topic but of interest, it appears the French have concerns about A400M spares availability. Of concern to the TUDM should be this statement: “Service cost was generally about double the acquisition cost… the senators said.”

http://blogs.defensenews.com/farnborough/2012/07/08/budget-cuts-may-curb-availability-of-a400m-spare-parts/

Reply
On A400M service cost, it is going to be expensive as only a small number of these planes will be in service. Notably the engines are only used on the A400Ms!
Azlan says:

July 12, 2012 at 8:01 am

Fareed,

Wonder if the Navflir ordered for our Hornets has similar capability. There were plans to have Zeiss in Germany make the Litening pods for sale to various countries. Not sure if it ever happened.
[email protected] says:

July 13, 2012 at 4:48 am

Which NAVFLIR pod is installed on or has been ordered for the Hornets? Is it the AN/AAS-38 “NITE Hawk”? Jane’s reports that 8 were supplied with the Hornets back in 1997. Or has an order been placed for the AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR by Raytheon?

There are several builders of LITENING pods. Germany and the US have both license-built LITENING pods in recent years. Turkey’s Aselsan also builds a purported “LITENING-derived” pod called the ASELPOD.

http://www.aselsan.com.tr/content.aspx?mid=375&oid=588

Reply
The Hornets are getting the ATFlir as part of their upgrades.
Azlan says:

July 13, 2012 at 12:18 pm

Sorry, not the NAVFLIR but the ATFLIR – my mistake. It will replace our Loral Nitehawks, which were notoriously expensive but were one of the most capable pods in the late 1990′s.
[email protected] says:

July 14, 2012 at 4:35 am

With the induction of the ATFLIR pods, there is no reason to keep flying the F-5s.
FareedLHS says:

July 18, 2012 at 7:25 am

Azlan,

Looks like Zeiss is getting out of the military optronics business completely:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120716/DEFREG01/307160004/Carl-Zeiss-Moving-Out-Defense-Tech?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Picture of the Week: F5 J85 engine

Related Posts:

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

May 2013
S	M	T	W	T	F	S
« Apr
			1	2	3	4
5	6	7	8	9	10	11
12	13	14	15	16	17	18
19	20	21	22	23	24	25
26	27	28	29	30	31